Siemens Basics

[Tim Ganz]

On siemens when you have V15, 16, and 17 on the TIA portal is it like Rockwell where the version and firmware in the controller must match or can I install 17 and handle everything older than that?

What about S7-300/400 processors? Can I use TIA portal V17 or do I have to install something else?

I need to upload and backup an S7-300/400 controller so does anyone know of a good tutorial that shows how to do that with the MPI cable?

 

[kalabdel]

On siemens when you have V15, 16, and 17 on the TIA portal is it like Rockwell where the version and firmware in the controller must match or can I install 17 and handle everything older than that?

What about S7-300/400 processors? Can I use TIA portal V17 or do I have to install something else?

I need to upload and backup an S7-300/400 controller so does anyone know of a good tutorial that shows how to do that with the MPI cable?

I don't know anything about rockwell stuff,I rarely plug into them that I always have to spend hours reading to refresh my memory of how thing work with them


Siemens is very very specific to Software and Firmware versions. This should be a good start for you.

You can use TIA for s7-300 and 400 for newer firmware versions, what newer is something you need to research, I don't know off the top of my head. But, again to upload you need to know if the existing program was TIA or Classic Step 7.


Upload

 

[parky]

I agree with Kalabdel, I made that mistake by ordering TIA to replace the older S7 V5.3 as it would not run on Win 7, found out that our hardware (2004) on S7 300/400 we could only monitor but could not make changes, we did not have any Siemens hardware newer than that, neither Siemens or their main distributor would take back TIA as it had been opened, had to order S7 Classic V 5.5.
Not sure what version of 300/400 is compatible with TIA but it is certainly newer than 2004.
By the way, S7 v 5.5 does not seem to work on win11 so you may need a vm or an older operating system if you need 5.5.

 

[sigmadelta]

In general, an S7-300 CPU with firmware version V2.6 or higher, and S7-400 CPU with firmware version V5.1 or higher can use STEP 7 TIA Portal (but this is not always the case).

That said, however, that doesn't mean every module in your S7-300/400 system is compatible with TIA Portal, unfortunately. If you have a bigger system it would take a while to go through each part# to check compatibility.

The "easiest" way to check your hardware compatibility, is to download the trial of TIA Portal and attempt to convert your project (checking the check box "including hardware").

My recommendation is to use STEP 7 V5.x (latest is V5.7) to maintain existing systems - especially if your project backup is not a TIA Portal backup. A "combo license" is available that covers both V5.x and TIA Portal versions (probably costs more), but would be most useful if you plan to introduce S7-1200/1500 PLCs into your facility.

You can check the Siemens Compatibility Tool or lists for specific CPU/Firmware compatibility here:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/kompatool/pages/main/index.jsf

For some reason the compatibility is not working for me... might be an issue with the site itself. There is a link on the page called "Load compatibility lists", which lets you choose the software in question, and the hardware in question to download an Excel file that lists compatibility of the software/hardware.

 

[JesperMP]

In principle TIA supports S7-300 and S7-400. But ....

Only the latest hardware versions are supported. This can be a problem if you have older systems you want to maintain.

You cannot merely load an old STEP7 V5 program into TIA. The program has to be migrated, meaning that first the STEP7 V5 program must go through a consistency check in STEP7 V5 without errors. After migration to TIA, the program has to be loaded onto the PLC. This means that STEP7 V5 cannot go online with the new migrated program.

Regarding the firmware versions, then TIA can work fine with different FW versions. You can specify the FW version for the project in question, also older FW versions. There is also a degree of backwards compatibility. You can have a newer firmware on a CPU than what is in the TIA project, even FW versions that does not exist in the TIA version.
edit: In other words there is no direct link between the CPU firmware version and the TIA version as there is in ControlLogix.

What TIA is really picky about is that the TIA versions must match. You cannot go online with a CPU that has a program of a different TIA version, even if your TIA version is newer than the program on the CPU.
(this last bit is a fact for S71500, I am unsure that it also pertains to S7-300/400)
The 'solution' from Siemens is that your TIA license also releases previous TIA versions. So you can have many TIA versions installed in parallel.

I only program S7-300/400 in STEP7 V5.
For S7-1500, I and many I know stick to one or two 'good' TIA versions for as long as possible. Only upgrade when yo absolutely have to.

 

[sigmadelta]

I only program S7-300/400 in STEP7 V5.

Yes, in general it's better to stick with STEP 7 V5.x for S7-300/400.

I've found that it is more convenient to convert STEP 7 V5.x to TIA when I have to use a Comfort Panel or WinCC Advanced/Professional RT in order to have both the PLC and HMI in the same project, and not deal with "proxy devices" for integration.

And it is a pain to have to make sure each and every piece (including digital I/O modules!!) is compatible with TIA Portal. Some times even the code has to be tweaked - especially in the case of using standard library functions in the existing program.

 

[JesperMP]

I've found that it is more convenient to convert STEP 7 V5.x to TIA when I have to use a Comfort Panel or WinCC Advanced/Professional RT in order to have both the PLC and HMI in the same project, and not deal with "proxy devices" for integration.

And it is a pain to have to make sure each and every piece (including digital I/O modules!!) is compatible with TIA Portal. Some times even the code has to be tweaked - especially in the case of using standard library functions in the existing program.

In my case I have hundreds of existing machines at customers sites from decades back that I must support. Sticking to STEP7 V5 I can easily go online, troubleshoot, and even download modifications.
If I had to migrate to TIA, it would be a huge job, and it would require that the machines in question would have to be stopped, and after migration every function would have to be tested as if the machine is new. Simply out of the question for most of the customers. And that is not even dealing with the problem with incompatible hardware.
In these older machines I have mostly WinCC Flexible Advanced, but also some Comfort Panels. And yes for the Comfort Panels it is a hassle to deal with STEP7 V5 + TIA, but far less hassle than the alternative.
That is my scenario. Certainly there are others for which migrating is the better option.

 

[JesperMP]

Regarding this question from the OP:

I need to upload and backup an S7-300/400 controller so does anyone know of a good tutorial that shows how to do that with the MPI cable?

It is called "Upload Station to PG".
Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zptLbQuVduc

Be aware that there will be no symbols or comments in the uploaded project.
It is really the last resort to upload from the PLC.
The correct way is to work with a proper backup of the original project, and to verify that you have the correct project, meaning doing an offline/online compare.

Also, if the program in the S7-300/400 PLC is made with STEP7 V5, then you cannot do an upload to TIA.
The procedure for TIA is similar "Upload Device as new station", but as noted only if the program was originally made with TIA.
And I am not sure if it is necessary that the TIA versions match exactly.

 

[Tim Ganz]

Thanks for all the insight everyone. I have the latest TIA Portal installed on a win 10 VM.

I have S7 Classic 5.7 also so should it handle anything S7-300/400?

Also can I install S7 classic on the same TIA VM I already have or is it best to put it on its own VM?

 

[JesperMP]

I have S7 Classic 5.7 also so should it handle anything S7-300/400?

Yes.
Be aware that there options to STEP7 Classic such as PLCSIM, SCL, GRAPH, Prodiag etc. If you are working with an existing STEP7 Classic project, it is possible that STEP7 will inform you that some software package is missing. You may still be able to work with the project, but not change the source code of for example SCL blocks.

Also can I install S7 classic on the same TIA VM I already have or is it best to put it on its own VM?

I have STEP7 Classic and TIA in the same VM. It is the most comfortable for me.