Siemens special features over other brands

[recycled_mind]

Why do you want to know this ?

I will be making a technical specifications wherein I will specify SIEMENS so that no other brands will be qualified to bid.

 

[JesperMP]

I kinda suspected it had something to do with that.
If this is for a public utility, such as water supplies, WWT, tunnel lighting or similar, then in the EU it would be illegal to specify a certain brand.

 

[mjoubert]

I will be making a technical specifications wherein I will specify SIEMENS so that no other brands will be qualified to bid.

The only reason I can see that someone would specify a system, is if the customers' engineers, technicians, or electricians are already well versed with that vendors software & products.

 

[PeterW]

The only reason I can see that someone would specify a system, is if the customers' engineers, technicians, or electricians are already well versed with that vendors software & products.

In our case we have developed a system in S7, in the future we will branch out the others (AB specifically) but for now we are stioll developing the base system, so we stick with S7.

Customers accept it or don't, their choice.

 

[kamenges]

Originally posted by recycled_mind:

I will be making a technical specifications wherein I will specify SIEMENS so that no other brands will be qualified to bid.

Then go the other way with the spec. Instead of saying:

"The PLC must {insert your specific desired function here}"

list ALL the functions and features that Siemens supports and say:

"The PLC must support ALL of the following function:"

and list them all. If you get a plc that supports all the functions you list and it's not Siemens you won't be able to tell the difference anyway.

I'm not soure of the legaility of this but if you can say:

"The PLC will support {list function} similar to Siemens S7-318"

or something like that it will save the people quoting some time trying to figure out what you really want.

Keith

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

I will be making a technical specifications wherein I will specify SIEMENS so that no other brands will be qualified to bid.

I don't think any other PLC has a RUN STOP RES switch along with a memory card slot of the front of the CPU.

I have had this discussion before with another European engineer that writes specifications. To specify specifically a S7, just specify there must be a RUN STOP RES switch on the CPU.

"If this is for a public utility, such as water supplies, WWT, tunnel lighting or similar, then in the EU it would be illegal to specify a certain brand."
Obviously engineers are smarter than the politicians and bureaucrats and can get around the the rules without breaking them.

 

[recycled_mind]

I kinda suspected it had something to do with that.
If this is for a public utility, such as water supplies, WWT, tunnel lighting or similar, then in the EU it would be illegal to specify a certain brand.

Yes, Jesper. That is why I need the unique characteristics of Siemens since it is not allowed to specify a certain brand.

 

[recycled_mind]

I don't think any other PLC has a RUN STOP RES switch along with a memory card slot of the front of the CPU.

I have had this discussion before with another European engineer that writes specifications. To specify specifically a S7, just specify there must be a RUN STOP RES switch on the CPU.

Thank you Peter. This will help. I will include this on the technical specifications...

 

[Paul B]

I love Peter's post just after mine. I felt his pain! I too have struggled with Siemens when compared to AB or GE.

Here is my Siemens story. I'm younger than several of you, 45. In the mid 90's I started with PLC5, SLC500, and GE 90-30. I am fluent with these platforms. In 1999 the company I worked for switched to Siemens. My first system was huge by our standards, a 5-door with about 50 motors. It controlled four lines in a room, or pretty much the whole room. I switched from a 315 to a 318 to get it done because of simple things like only having 112 timers. (This before I knew of a workaround with IEC timers.) Midway through the project we asked and received a firmware update from Germany to counter an issue with racks on interface modules powering off a split second before the CPU. This caused the CPU to fault and remain faulted after a power cycle. They immediately came through with a firmware update and made it all happen. A Siemens engineer drove overnight to deliver the firmware update and assisted me in the plant with the firmware update.

It took me a full year to become comfortable with the Siemens programming environment. I tell this to new Siemens S7 users all the time. I feel this is important to state because I felt fluent with the PLC world of AB and GE, then Siemens was another world.

>> The power and flexibility of the S7 platform brings complication not seen in other platforms. <<

It is true the software does not protect you from yourself - hence Peter's comment on the time stamps and the consistency checks. But if you think of yourself as a one-way street you can avoid this. It's a mind set, I could devote a post to how to avoid the pitfalls of this. I learned early on to not do what I shouldn't, and have never had troubles on my applications. However I do have problems when following other programmers that are not as careful as I am.

Past that, here is why Siemens is my preferred programming package: I can knock out a program faster with S7 than with AB or GE. Once you get a few projects under your belt and have code to pull from, the program just writes itself. I could expand on this, and will if asked, but for this post I will leave it at that.

Now, the caveats. If you are doing routine I-O applications with standard ladder programming I don't have an issue. But when an application needs custom stuff, I have to call for help. I have struggled with things like how to do serial or Modbus comms, etc. The documentation from Germany is not always the easiest to understand. And Profibus drives are not always as simple as AB's ethernet drives.

Siemens help is always readily available to me. The Siemens hotline and local application engineers are the best. When I need help, I ask - and help is immediately given and the solution is found.

I realize Peter is doing custom stuff and comparing it to how much work he has to do with what it takes to do AB or another platform. I very much respect his opinion and agree somewhat so will not take away from that. This is not to counter, it is only to expand the discussion.

Peter I've used your Delta RMC75s on four applications with a SLC 5/03 and it rocks. The application is shocking coil springs for automotive where we need to either move to position or move to force. I have called your tech support several times and received an immediate solution to my problem. Your tech support is exemplary.

 

[Paul B]

And ^^^^THAT^^^^ probably needed to be a new thread and not an addendum to a "how do I spec a Siemens without saying Siemens" thread.

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

I realize Peter is doing custom stuff and comparing it to how much work he has to do with what it takes to do AB or another platform.

Actually, I am comparing how much tech support is required of us that should be provided by the PLC company.

 

[John Gaunt]

Surely you can say that the customer has a preference for brand X but suppliers of other brands should not be detered from bidding. They will get the message and generally not bother.

 

[IBFS]

...
Past that, here is why Siemens is my preferred programming package: I can knock out a program faster with S7 than with AB or GE. Once you get a few projects under your belt and have code to pull from, the program just writes itself. I could expand on this, and will if asked, but for this post I will leave it at that.
...

Thanx Paul for his good statement.

Frank

 

[JesperMP]

Hmmmm.....

I think I know how to write a spec that indirectly implied Siemens only.
But I dont want to be part of circumventing the spirit of the law, even if it does not mean circumventing the letter of the law. The purpose of that law is to advance open competition, and to hinder nepotism.

Bye !

 

[unclehamid]

in Iran among GE,AB and siemens we just have one option, "SIEMENS" becouse us sanction .
But I think siemens software is too tricky and it is not
user friendly at all. I think some of rules and tricks are unreasonable.in software ,patch over patch and alot of hotfix show you German brilliant programming!there are some conflict between simatic softwares and even higher version some times don't support earller .5 years ago I had part time job with a very small company with 3 employ they designed a PLC with Z80 cpu(it has some basic Function ) it works well without SF led ON!!