Training for maintenance techs?

Sending them to the same class isn't going to get different results.
Hmmm...Our entire education system then must have been using the wrong method for the last 150 years or so. If you don't learn it the first time, you are supposed to repeat the course until you do. But now Timbert says this is all wrong. If you don't get it the first time, forget it and forever remain ignorant. You missed your one chance! You blew it big-time and now there is no second chance!

I guess we need to inform the Professional Engineers that there is no point in them going back every year for refresher courses - doing the same thing over and expecting to learn something new? Bah!, just a waste of time! Doctors, lawyers, and other professionals really do not need to go back for their required Continuing Education credits each year - no point, it is just doing the same things over again and expecting different results!

Lets put Timbert in charge of professional education. We could eliminate a bunch of courses, and engineers, architects, doctors, lawyers, and many others could just coast through their entire careers based on what they learned 30 or 40 years ago! What a grand idea! (Under this system, when you go to a doctor you might get some leeches put on you, a widely-taught medical school treatment at one time).
 
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Training

Hi Guys, Once again all of your self riteous self congratualting fellows have missed the point.

Point = Training

I think Markie hates His Boss and doesn't want to loose his place in the skill set heirarchy at His work place, stop winging and let the other guys go and get more training, don't interfere. If your work mates are that uninterested or unqualified to maintain a PLC based system they should not be there, simple as that. So clever dick you taught yourself from someone else's S7 notes 11 years ago, well my friend you are at the wrong work place NASA needs people like you !!! As for other commenters, other professions such as Legal, Medical and Educational ALL have refresher courses.............Continuous self improvement and maintaining skill sets with the times is the kernel of any Trade or Profession. Keep your mouth shut and let the Boss spend His money on training your work mates !!
 
Markie,

I am the maintenance engineer in an automotive assembly shop. Having experienced similar environments to yours in the past...

Some guys/gals will never be interested in learning and participating in the more technical aspects of your shop. They will stay in thier comfort zones, change light bulbs and press fault reset. Any more problem than that and they will call you.

I try to find the ones that seem to take an interest. Get them involved in small projects or changes. Prompt them to assist you when you are looking into an issue and let them do the programming with your assistance. Hopefully this will build a sense of ownership and mybe lighten the load on you for small things. I would not worry about them replacing you, this is not likely.

Well anyway just a couple thoughts ... best of luck.

Gary
 
Choice Of Words

Go with these 3 morons, and make sure they don't party all night and sleep through the classes. Learn all you can, make contacts, pick up new literature, talk to the instructors. Win-win-win.[/quote]


I think the author of this paragraph should rethink His use of His words , very poor reflection on yourself Sir !!
 
I think the answer to your question really depends on the intended role of the maintenance technicians in question. If they are expected to create and/or modify control programs, it is good business to send them to training. If they are expected to troubleshoot existing properly commissioned machines, then it is probably not the best use of their time or the company's money. If control systems require frequent editing or rewriting of the control programs, the problems usually do not lie with the technicians tasked with maintaining the equipment. Having said that, I haven't seen many formal or informal training courses targeting industrial maintenance. If they are general maintenance technicians, responsible for production machinery, facility maintenance, ancillary equipment (fork trucks, compressors, etc), then a rather broad knowledge base is more desirable than very specific training (Siemens S7 training, for example). If they are only maintaining your company's final product, or if your company is large enough to have highly specialized techs, then the focused training can pay off.
 
I think the author of this paragraph should rethink His use of His words...
Peanuts, what part of my tirade hit home? Which part reminded you of your own situation? Have you been one of those supposed to be training but used it as an excuse to party?
 
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Training

No total opposite Lancie1. You should not assume or generalise. I bought the company I worked for, I have built it up to be a leader in our field. I went to courses and came back enriched passing on what I had learned to my peers. I know the value of keeping 'up to date'. We are a pro active company that encourages further study inhouse and out, some of my guys studying in fields other than Machine Control and Mechatronics in their own time. Over the last decade we have trained 15 apprentices of which 9 have remained with us the remainder going to better positions won on the knowledge and experienced gained from working for me.
 
Peanutz.

Good for you. In a lot of companies, training course learning could be used much more effectively. At one small company that I worked for, when you went away for a training class, you better take good notes, learn the subject, because when you got back, you had to explain what you learned to the boss and at a Lunch & Learn session with the other members of the group. The knowledge had to be shared, and if you did not learn a few things that could be shared, it meant the money had been wasted and a star placed by your name in the boss's mind: unteachable?, unreliable?, maybe just plain stupid?
 
Just remember guys, no one is born a PLC programmer !! Also we all know from our own experience that 'some' manuals do not teach they confuse and some of us need to be taught. Traning in this country is Tax Deductible so any employer that wants to maintain his assets up time high and his employees interested should do without a black German car and spend the coin on training that is Tax Deduction !!

you realise that prior to 'Programming PLC's' the only systems were either TTL (boolean) or the dreaded relay logic.
In the early days there were no training courses in relay control only knowledgable people training apprentices.
and a 10 hour course as part of their apprenticeship.
NOW - we have "Qualified Persons" - take that either way.


Siemens differs from other plc's but I like working with it.
Still need a lot of work on the STL side though.
 
It sounds like the same old song in industy today. You cannot make a person develop into something thier not. Try to teach someone to be an electrician that has no desire to read the code book, or any other book. Sorry to say we live in a world of "show me the money"
 
It sounds like the same old song in industy today. You cannot make a person develop into something thier not. Try to teach someone to be an electrician that has no desire to read the code book, or any other book. Sorry to say we live in a world of "show me the money"
(y)
yep you are right - or ask many of us to do their homework for them.
yourself excluded
 
Sorry to say, we live in a world of "show me the money"
Hurrah for that! You have it all backwards, Gaboy.

I would hate to live in a non-capitalist world. Look around at how many times the socialist method has been tried and failed, such as the USSR that took about 60 years to become completely unworkable, when all the people figured out that there was no reward for personal work - no "show me the money", no possible way to work hard and get ahead.

Unfortunately in my lifetime we have traveled ever closer to the socialist model. The closer we get, the less chance of personal reward, personal gain, and the more the American Dream is exterminated. All that is required for that to happen in the US is to for each citizen to continue to accept government handouts, government insurance, government welfare, and to ask for more and more.

If you want to live in a world where you don't have to worry about earning any extra money, or developing into something you are not, and hearing the "same old song", then you should imigrate to Cuba. I understand that there is not much hope there of EVER going any higher!
 
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My heavily biased opinions:

Everyone is replaceable. Usually much easier than anyone can imagine themselves to be.

I can't see any negative in people receiving more education. I commend your boss for seeing value in investing in his people. The issue isn't whether it is worth it, but how to do it such that it is worth it.

What you should be asking for is your boss to invest in you as well, and send you to training. Maybe a higher level class.

Why do you really care? You need to be honest with yourself about this. I don't know you, your boss, or the other chaps ..... so this is by no means a judgement. But I would say based on what little we know, you are the Alpha dog in the group when it comes to the technical problems. You are probably in a position where you yourself determine (in one fashion or another) how much hands on the other guys get. They may just defer to you out of respect, or because they know you will get it done quicker. Because your the Alpha, the people aksing for help probably seek you out first, as human nature would dictate. The downside of course is, the rest of the group then never get any better.

In your position, what really should happen is that you should only get involved once the others have tried and get stuck. Then they come to you for help. Your in a position to teach them. I have seen many people in your position with the opposite mentality. They want to keep all the knowledge for themselves. I guarantee though that teaching them more only makes you stronger. Let them struggle on their own, and then when the ask for help, come in an assist. Show them what you would do. Explain to them why you are doing it that way, etc. But don't do it for them. Let them learn. If you're concerned about how fixes are made, or how the files are backed up, then you are in the position to train them as you see fit.


You can't fake interest obviously, and you've got to where you are because you had genuine interest whereas the others may just have interest in what they perceive to be the economic benefits. It is difficult to learn something, even simple things, without any genuine interest. It is ultimately why we end up with the careers that we have. But often the level of interest might wane because of distractions. Some of these guys might just be so overwhelmed with what they have going on already, that this just isn't high on their list. If you put them in a position where they need to use these skills once in a while, then maybe their interest raises in proportion. The interest also might not be there quite simply because they percieve a glass ceiling in the sense that no matter what they learn, there is not point because you will end up neing the one that does all that stuff anyway.
 
Over the last decade we have trained 15 apprentices of which 9 have remained with us the remainder going to better positions won on the knowledge and experienced gained from working for me.

Just a little clarification here... From what you have said your apprentice program is 100% effective. So in 10 years you have never had 1 apprentice fail?

Please do not take this as criticism but that is phenomenal odds. We have an internship program here and I am always looking for ways to improve it, hence my questions. Right now we have about a 50% washout rate.

What would you attribute your success to... Where you able to screen out all the ones likely to fail prior to entering your apprentice program? Or do you have such a large program you can find a place for everyone?
 

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