Unwind Tension control with motor and brake

Join Date
Mar 2005
Location
England
Posts
1,078
Anyone done unwind web tension control with a driven unwind and an air controlled brake ? The unwind motor/drive are sized for normal running tension but will not stop a full roll at fast stop so the brake is used to provide more torque to maintain control - least thats the idea. Any comments/experiences welcomed.
 
Simon, What's the expected use-life of these machines? Maybe I can move to GB and open a shop to reline brakes just for you!

If you require a mechanical brake to stop in an emergency shutdown that's one thing but to use the brake to provide running tension, it would seem to me that would be a maintenance nightmare. It would be best to size the motors & drives so they can handle the enertia & regen.
 
elevmike, I think that's what he's doing. Re-read the post. I think you'll agree.

On the other hand, I'm not sure just what SimonG is looking for. It sounds like a pretty typical unwind tension system to me. Only thing that comes to mind is the need to coordinate the mechanical brake with the drive run cycle so the drive is never trying to run into the brake.
 
I'm not sure Dick,

SimonGoldsworthy said:
.....so the brake is used to provide more torque to maintain control -

From that statement I get the impression that part of the idea is to use the brake to provide tension during a slowdown that would be necessitated by slack, not necessarly stopping. :confused:
 
Thanks for the comments so far - as usual my problem is not defined well enough, so here's more information.

My machine usually has a motor/drive for controlling unwind tension with a dancer roll as the feedback device. An air brake is also provided for emergency stop only (the drive is disabled during emergency stop). The air pressure is profiled with diameter to prevent bending rolls when emergency stopping with smaller diameter rolls.

As well as emergency stop (all drives disabled), there are two other stops, normal stop at end of run (say 90 seconds to stop from full speed), and a fast stop due to a fault (say 30 seconds to stop from full speed). When choosing an unwind drive/motor, the worst case scenario is stopping a large roll at full tension during fast stop as the motor must generate the torque for tension as well as the torque to slow down the roll. Of course, the frequency of occurrence of fast stops at full tension with a large roll are not that often, but the motor/drive are sized to cater for that situation. The idea is to reduce the motor/drive size and then use the controlled brake to assist the motor during the odd fast stop with large roll.

elevmike - note that braked unwind tension controlled machines are quite common if the production environment can tolerate the brake dust and the energy thrown away is not that significant. Changing a set of disc pads is no big deal.
 
Simon, is this paper or ? If paper will you be splicing "on the fly", while running?. Will it have a festoon? What will be the normal web running speed.
 
What you are proposing is basically a standard design. Even with an ESTOP condition you have to do a controlled stop to prevent web break.

I worked with paper being printed, I re-designed and rebuilt 2 unwinds and 2 turret rewinds. I had a 3rd re-wind that would have been the best of the bunch because I had better spare equipment to use but never got permission...hated seeing those 2-75HP Reliance WebPak DC drives just go to waste.

What are the specific questions?

If there will be a web with a drive motor it is normal to set the unwind as a FOLLOWER using the dancer to trim the speed 5-10%. Technically depending on the drives involved much of this can be done within the drives.

The issue is how much tension to create, each type of material has a different modulus or extensibility, low modulus or high extensible material need low tension. I have a chart somewhere.

There are several threads on this subject that you may want to search for.

I used AB when I did the unwinds because they have an abundance of information etc involving web tension control. From what I see with Contrologix it has even advanced further.

Here are some references/books that may interest you.
http://www.bcconverting.com/content/8techtips/unwindapplications.pdf

http://www.bcconverting.com/content/8techtips/ChallengesWindingFlexiblePkgFilms.pdf

http://www.polysurfacesbookstore.com/pages/3200.html
 
Simon-

I've never done exactly what you are talking about. However, I don't see an issue with it either. Having a dancer will tend to make life a little easier as you have a little bit of accumulation to play with.

If I were doing this I would go with a proportional only closed loop brake control. Make the dancer position setpoint for brake control a 'little bit' greater accumulation than the setpoint for the normal drive control. Activate the closed loop control only on fast stops. The dissimilar setpoints and proportional only control should keep the systems from fighting each other. It sounds like you already have e-stop covered. I would also suggest varying the gain based on diameter and applying a little bit of tension and accel feed forward based on roll diameter, roll width and decel rate. Just don't go overboard with the feed forward.

Keith
 
i am doing a project in which i have unwind apaper roll , for this i have contol the tension using brakes , i just have following information ..

  1. diameter of roll
  2. width of roll
  3. density of paper
can anyone tell me the equation for finding tension using these parameter .

thankyou.
 
Last edited:
hi simon , i think you need to clear your question , as far i think you just want to control the tension of unwinder using air breake as a open loop system not for stoping the unwinder
 

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