What's the most annoying PLC problem?

[dburnum]

My biggest pet peeve is management trying to take away an operators ability to think and do their job. Stupid alarms or lockouts or stripping down functionality because they are afraid their operators aren't competent enough to run the machine. In my experience give the operator as many tools as possible and they will make the machine run better than any amount of situational code.

Still...Id rather limit finite control of what an operator can do, then have an inattentive operator melt down or destroy a $1.5M heat exchanger.

My biggest complaint is as Tom Jenkins posted: Being requested to modify code to try and make a poorly engineered process run.

 

[harryting]

People.

 

[redbarron55]

Bosses who don't understand the real world we work in.
Little respect for 40 years in the business.

Currently I have a guy who wants to go back to the 70's with manual level and pump controls because he doesn't understand the system for "reliability".
So far where we had almost no problems we suddenly have problems with the "Code Black" modifications he mandated where none existed before.

This is so he can "run the plant in manual" while we find and fix problems.
It takes longer to get back to normal automatic operation from "Code Black" than it did to troubleshoot and repair any issues we might have.

All of this because we don't want to take the effort to train the electricians how to do their jobs in the 21st century.

 

[Secpcb]

Redbarron,

I had a customer whose plant manager was way before the 70's.

He refused to allow any PLC's in his machinery, he wanted to be able to open the panel and see the mechanical relays activating, and if something wasn't he could isolate it to one relay or contactor not coming on.

And add to that about 40 or more pilot lights to show every possible condition.

 

[redbarron55]

Redbarron,

I had a customer whose plant manager was way before the 70's.

He refused to allow any PLC's in his machinery, he wanted to be able to open the panel and see the mechanical relays activating, and if something wasn't he could isolate it to one relay or contactor not coming on.

And add to that about 40 or more pilot lights to show every possible condition.

This is one thing I don't miss about the 70's.
Now I would like to have my hair back........

 

[dwoodlock]

My biggest pet peeve is management trying to take away an operators ability to think and do their job. Stupid alarms or lockouts or stripping down functionality because they are afraid their operators aren't competent enough to run the machine.

I spend a lot of time dealing with these scenarios as well, but its because we keep employing the type of people that are eluded by common sense and logical thought processes.

My biggest gripe as far as the PLC's is probably poor documentation. This is largely because lately all my projects have been in TIA Portal. The help files are pretty lacking. I've had instances where I followed their instructions, and it wont work, and then I contact the company directly and they tell me to do something different, and then it still doesn't work.

These situations aren't all bad because once I figure it out, I'll know it forever. The issue is that I hate having to spend 2 days trying to do something fairly simple by using their instructions that don't work.

 

[SysIntegrator]

Seems unanimous that the user/troubleshooter is often the greatest struggle, and I couldn't agree more. Great integration, sophisticated development of fault codes, and anticipation of device/human error can make a machine or process robust, but there is no replacement for complete lack of technical knowledge and understanding of basic concepts. Some people can't be helped. Even worse is general laziness. In plants where technical knowledge is really deficient, especially at the supervisor level, I've seen many people blame software problems and claim it's out of their realm without putting forth any effort. Sure, the PLC program that hasn't been changed in 12 years all of a sudden has a new bug. I'll get right on it.

But on topic of actual develop and integration, incorrect indirect addressing is often the worst. I've lost hours trying to understand why code doesn't work like it should only to find a bit is being written from elsewhere in the program but I can't find it by cross referencing.

 

[Jnoobs]

But on topic of actual develop and integration, incorrect indirect addressing is often the worst. I've lost hours trying to understand why code doesn't work like it should only to find a bit is being written from elsewhere in the program but I can't find it by cross referencing.

This right here is my number one gripe with programming. Wasting crucial time.

 

[SysIntegrator]

I can't help it, I like this thread. My last job was realllly bad when it came to poor technical knowledge troubleshooting sophisticated equipment, with bad direction from management.

Software issues that are my own (or even others) creation, I can still stomach, that's just a challenge of a job that weeds out my competition. However, the greatest pains I have had in software/automation are mechanical problems that people REALLY want to be software or electrical. Changing code is faster and cheaper than regrinding gears and replating cylinders. There's no doubt I've had over 100 requests to change software for process/mechanical issues, and I haven't been in the business that long.

 

[Epy]

My biggest gripe as far as the PLC's is probably poor documentation.

I'll 2nd (or 3rd) that. Especially with the budget stuff, always have to contact the factory on how to do anything out of the "ordinary" etc. The documentation that comes with only covers the basics.

 

[redbarron55]

One of my problems is when some new guy knows everything and is god's gift to programming.
When he finishes this current project and if it works it will be one in a row!

But without him I might be unemployed since I make my money by making screwed up things work, mechanical, electrical, or Programming

 

[harryting]

I'll 2nd (or 3rd) that. Especially with the budget stuff, always have to contact the factory on how to do anything out of the "ordinary" etc. The documentation that comes with only covers the basics.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for documentation. However, no documentation can save bad programming.

"A Computer language is not just a way of getting a computer to perform operations.. it is a novel formal medium for expressing idea bout methodology. thus, programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute" -SICP

 

[JaxGTO]

I would say my biggest problem as a System Integrator is the fact that we are on the end of every schedule. And of course the end date can't change because production always comes first. What really annoys me is that mechanical and electrical can always get behind and they never seem to get in trouble for it. Yet we have one day left for IO checkout and testing (which should have had 5 days) with the customer standing over our shoulder say "Can we make product yet?". But they never stand over the shoulder of the mechanical or electrical asking when they will be done.

The second biggest problem is trying to use a new product that turns out is not as available as the supplier said it would be.

Third biggest would be having to use a .0 of any software and spend more time finding and working around all the bugs then actually programming.

 

[jstolaruk]

I would say my biggest problem as a System Integrator is the fact that we are on the end of every schedule. And of course the end date can't change because production always comes first. What really annoys me is that mechanical and electrical can always get behind and they never seem to get in trouble for it. Yet we have one day left for IO checkout and testing (which should have had 5 days) with the customer standing over our shoulder say "Can we make product yet?". But they never stand over the shoulder of the mechanical or electrical asking when they will be done.

The second biggest problem is trying to use a new product that turns out is not as available as the supplier said it would be.

Third biggest would be having to use a .0 of any software and spend more time finding and working around all the bugs then actually programming.

It does get old being the bearer of bad news: "I quoted a week, I need a week".

 

[ASF]

It does get old being the bearer of bad news: "I quoted a week, I need a week".

Someone's signature on here always makes me laugh -
"If you want to make a baby, it takes 9 months. You can't just put 9 guys on it and give them a month."