Ignition or FactoryTalk

[cardosocea]

Not good to support on a vessel that can be anywhere in the world.

What do you mean by this? The AD and RDS servers wouldn't be on board? I suppose it boils down to training, but surely training to rebuild a thick client and learning to use the RDS server (the AD could be set and forget really) shouldn't be a stretch.

This being said, I very much prefer Ignition's way of doing this where it downloads the application to run into the PC without needing anything out of the ordinary on it. Thin clients, if well configured on the network are pretty good for maintenance to replace, but need additional training on management.

 

[mad4x4]

What do you mean by this? The AD and RDS servers wouldn't be on board? I suppose it boils down to training, but surely training to rebuild a thick client and learning to use the RDS server (the AD could be set and forget really) shouldn't be a stretch.

This being said, I very much prefer Ignition's way of doing this where it downloads the application to run into the PC without needing anything out of the ordinary on it. Thin clients, if well configured on the network are pretty good for maintenance to replace, but need additional training on management.

All servers were onboard and local to the Thin Clients. Its not the Thin Client replacement, we lost the Domain controller and we had to rebuild it and Actively directly over a Satalite Link. Our onshore AD manger wished us good luck. I agree training would have helped, but advanced knowledge and not installing a domain in a hostile environment is a lesson learnt.

Engineer where possible, should rely on the KISS principle. Thinmanager and Thin Clients may be good for a factory with an IT (Domain manager) or Microsoft professional on staff, but in the middle of Altanic with a sat link and a PLC Tech... not the best place.

 

[joseph_e2]

I've never used Ignition, but have use FT View Studio for ME. Based on that experience, I'd say Ignition HAS to be better...

 

[Engineerj22]

Even never having used Ignition and only having used FTV SE and ME, go with Ignition. Rockwell's fallen flat with HMI and SCADA. Give me AD or Maple Systems (Weintek) HMIs any day of the week

 

[cardosocea]

Engineer where possible, should rely on the KISS principle. Thinmanager and Thin Clients may be good for a factory with an IT (Domain manager) or Microsoft professional on staff, but in the middle of Altanic with a sat link and a PLC Tech... not the best place.

Thin clients is keeping it simple though, the chances of the thin client failing are higher than the AD server failing. On the other hand it also depends on your backup solution and where you installed the AD server. wouldn't it be installed alongside the SCADA and RDS server in the same panel? Possibly the same physical machine?

And being critical, you could have two of them (I know, I know, licensing costs) or a good maintenance procedure and good backups. I use Veeam (I know, I know, licensing costs) to back up my VMs so bringing them back to life is easy, provided the hardware is good.

When I had "thick" independent servers, I'd specify them as RAID 1 and create monthly (or after mods) sets of spare RAID disks that could be replaced in a hurry (never two at the same time though, one to check the HW was good first of all).

I did have the most anal person when it came to backups as a manager/mentor... so that also plays a part in these.

 

[L33er]

I know a guy working for an integrator who posted his personal opinions about Rockwells stuff a while back. (not this post but one on a another forum) Some time later he was met in his office by a Rockwell rep vaguely threatening his job if he didn't retract it. His boss backed Rockwell up and he did exactly that.

I've seen a change in Rockwell in the last few years this direction so I wonder if that happens to anyone else?

Sounds bs like my election was stolen.

 

[TheWaterboy]

Sounds bs like my election was stolen.

Meaning what exactly

 

[harryting]

I've never used Ignition, but have use FT View Studio for ME. Based on that experience, I'd say Ignition HAS to be better...

I have said Panelview + is the worst touchpanel HMI ever. However, FT View SE is a different beast. I actually like it better than Wonderware and iFix.

 

[curlyandshemp]

I have said Panelview + is the worst touchpanel HMI ever. However, FT View SE is a different beast. I actually like it better than Wonderware and iFix.

The true test is doing an upgrade. Eventhough over the years the Ignition installation file has bloated from a few hundred Meg to over 1 GB, downloading Ignition with a fast internet connection and installation can take 10 - 20 minutes mainly based on download speed.

A FTSE or FTME upgrade, may as well go get a haircut and by the time you come back , may be done unless there is some Fatal Error that occurred .

 

[cardosocea]

The true test is doing an upgrade. Eventhough over the years the Ignition installation file has bloated from a few hundred Meg to over 1 GB, downloading Ignition with a fast internet connection and installation can take 10 - 20 minutes mainly based on download speed.

A FTSE or FTME upgrade, may as well go get a haircut and by the time you come back , may be done unless there is some Fatal Error that occurred .

Last upgrade of FTSE on my site took days... One ES, DS, OS, ThinManager server.

Mostly because not only do you have to shut down the application, you have to kill all the services in task manager for the upgrade to go through or you get inconsistencies in the directory. Absolute pile of manure, but somehow people still buy it.

I am looking for a new position now and one of the red lines is not having to deal with Rockwell anymore.

 

[OkiePC]

There are like 4 stupid things about Ignition. None of them are terrible to deal with or work around.

If you go to the Rockwell Knowledgebase and type in Factory Talk View Studio, how many tech notes are there now? At one time a decade ago it was around twelve thousand.

Factory talk view studio should ship with a 40oz. speaker magnet and a coupon for Jim Beam.

The magnet is for your hard drive, but I guess with SSDs my saying is obsolete.

 

[Jlandwerlen]

There are like 4 stupid things about Ignition. None of them are terrible to deal with or work around.

Curious what those stupid things are.

 

[OkiePC]

Curious what those stupid things are.

Let's see if I can list the peeves that bug me most, and really I should chosen a different word. Aggravating is probably a better word:

1. Array tags are not what you think they are. Sorry but if you have an array of UDT, you have to create a tag for each element. Wanna look at an array of 32 bits in a SLC, try the Boolean Array tag type...no wait, that didn't work. So I get to use the expression function GetBit() or create 32 individual Boolean tags.

2. Scripting...is it jython or is it expression scripting? Two new languages to juggle.

3. Pop-up with the choices "Yes and No." Pressing Y or N on the keyboard does nothing.

4. Editing tags means moving the mouse all over the place to get to all the properties. It isn't a nice tidy table like it could have been.

There are like 400 things about Ignition that are incredibly great and I can't list them all.

 

[TheWaterboy]

The only thing about Ignition that worries me is that their business model seems to be designed to get bought by a VC and then of course ruined like every other one has been.

Their product is great, their support people and other staff are outstanding and engaged and while that used to be a path to longevity, now it is a business plan focused on being bought out so the staff that built the whole thing can get wealthy and move on to something else.

 

[cardosocea]

The only thing about Ignition that worries me is that their business model seems to be designed to get bought by a VC and then of course ruined like every other one has been.

Their product is great, their support people and other staff are outstanding and engaged and while that used to be a path to longevity, now it is a business plan focused on being bought out so the staff that built the whole thing can get wealthy and move on to something else.

I wish Rockwell had that plan... new blood would do them a world of good.