Are UL or NEC Requiring Documentation Now?

I heard somewhere last fall that either UL oe NEC or some other agency was going to require full documentation on a machine in a plant. This would include schematics, a copy of the plc program, and more.

Has any one else heard anything about this?

I have been all over the internet, searched here, and tried to read through th new NEC book. So far I have found nothing. I was just asked if I had all my documentation in order, that we were getting a surprise inspection soon. I am stumped.

Thanks

Del

Del

The only things that I know of are
1. The requirement (OSHA driven) to label cabinets that have more than one power supply. This is fairly old, but I wuld bet most have not done it.

2. This is 3rd hand info
BUT according to my brother
AND it was in discussion stage when I left Boeing in 96
now they are going thru and evaluating all equipment and putting in (I forget official term) anti restart on loss of power relays on equipment. This also entails just about a full overhaul / rebuild / redesign of the electrical. Don't let Boeing overkill lead you down a false path.

I love it
1. "were gonna get a surprise inspection"
2. You got all your paper together NOT are our machines in proper condition, do our electricians have the prints they need - and are they up to date - without penciled in heiroglyphics (spelling ?) etc etc.
3. Seen this time and time again inspection time comes up and there is a mad scramble to get paper in order that should have been done all along for last two years. I really PO'd some managers in Boeing Safety when I told them the paper was all gundecked anyway, I did not care about that - I just inspected the shops to ensure good working conditions - found a few skeletins here and there - but their paper was in order!!

And what is most irritating is you have been telling them to let you have more time resources to keep the drawings up to date and make sure they are out there for the electricians to use for two years with no effect and now this inspection !!!

Dan Bentler

NEC is not a governing body, they have created standards adopted by the US, state and local government.

UL is a safety testing and certification process, if you make a product to obtain UL certification then expect their to be paperwork/documentation involved.
http://www.ul.com/

ISO 9000, 14000 etc etc is quality assurance (management) and certification that DEFINITELY requires PAPERWORK.
http://www.ul.com/services/iso9000.htm

For other certification processes provided by UL look at the menu on the right.

this may have derived from the big tada over the arc flash requirements that OSHA is implementing in the coming months. From the classes I've been to, OSHA is requiring doccumentation of flash hazards in every panel/switchgear/MCC in all manufactoring plants in the US, all the way down to 120 VAC. DC isn't factored in, even in the case of the 15+ 300VDC motors we have here. Wether or not they comply is up to the plants (OSHA doesn't really have the resources to check everywhere!), but they face ridiculous fines if an accident occurs & the plant is at fault for non-compliance.

In the US things like Lockout Tagout, confined space permits, hot work permits etc have technically been required by OSHA for along time. Many companies for whatever reason havent felt the pressure..or just got lucky...and havent created a safety management program with the associated documentation.

As was mentioned above OSHA doesnt have the resources or a reason to check any company until there is a severe accident or alot of complaints.

Besides a whole lot of other "marking" required, UL 508 specifies:

61.1 An industrial control panel shall be provided with a complete schematic wiring diagram including all components provided by the manufacturer. Field installed components shown on the schematic wiring diagram shall comply with 60.3

61.2 A standardized schematic wiring diagram that includes optional components and circuits that are commonly supplied by a manufacturer shall be modified on a per unit basis to include only those components that are actually being supplied by the manufacturer.

NFPA 79 Information on documentation is in section 18. You can get your copy at www.nfpa.org

To make sure we (I) understand,

UL 508 is used when you build a panel that you want UL listed...correct? I believe the requirements are that the devices used are UL listed and the wiring/installation etc is to conform to NEC code.

I can't 'see' a need for UL Inspector to have a copy/print out of PLC Logic or software. All the years I've dealt with UL panels, they only require the schmetic drawing, and have in your UL file ALL the spec's of every electrical part used in that panel.

rsdoran said:

To make sure we (I) understand,

UL 508 is used when you build a panel that you want UL listed...correct? I believe the requirements are that the devices used are UL listed and the wiring/installation etc is to conform to NEC code.

Click to expand...

Yes, UL 508 applies only when you want/need a panel to be UL 508 listed. AND it is only concerntd with making sure there is no shock or fire hazzard from the panel. From the standpoint of UL 508, your panel could totally not function and look like a piece of garbage but if it doesn't cause a shock or fire hazzard and meets the rest of the spec, you get the sticker.

However, there is more than simply using all UL listed components. Actually, it is virtually impossible to use all listed components because there are no listed terminal blocks... they are all only recognized and have to be applied in specific ways. I'd elaborate but then again, I don't have 6 months.

While we're on the UL topic...

What kind of seperation is required by UL508 for analog, 24VDC, 120VAC control wiring within a control panel?

Actually Norm I had to use the standard once couple years ago when rebuilding a panel. I vaguely remember having to do some odd things. It wasnt my project per se, I just put it together, wired it and programmed the plc the way they specified to do it. I wish I had made a copy of it though.

93lt1 said:

What kind of seperation is required by UL508 for analog, 24VDC, 120VAC control wiring within a control panel?

Click to expand...

I'm at home today and didn't bring my spec with me. There is a section called separation of circuits but I can't remember exactly what it entails.

BTW, saw a GML Commander page on your web site. Is the AB 1394 still around? I heard they were going to discontinue it. I liked it except for trying to do fault handling on it which was a real bear.

ndzied1 said:

BTW, saw a GML Commander page on your web site. Is the AB 1394 still around? I heard they were going to discontinue it.

Click to expand...

I think that Screenshot is on the webpage because GML is a little more flashy than most other servo software. As far as I know they are still available. I haven't done a (new) project with them lately, everything has Controllogix motion. After using Controllogix motion, I realize more and more how much I don't like GML...