Strange outputs 1771-OAD

mulderm

Member
Join Date
Jun 2003
Location
Netherlands
Posts
298
Hello,

I have using AC 110V Output module's for a PLC/5 system.
Now I have Optocoupler's connected to this Output's.
Problem is that when a Output is Low ("0") the Optocoupler
is activate.
Measuring the Output without a load gives a 70V AC signal when the Output is Low ("0").
How can this happen?
Why is this not 0V ac?
Many other modules have this problem.
Please help me because the Optocoupler's giving a wrong signal
when the Output have a Low signal.

mulderm
 
mulderm,
Could this module be one of those triac type output units.
Anyway, AB's installation manual states that " Off State Leakage Current (max.) 3.0mA per output @ 138V ac". Maybe your octocoupler requires less than this to be "On". Consider using a device to pull this leakage current to neutral. I'm sure others will be able to give opinions as to what the best device may be in this case. Personally I have yet to figure this one out. I usually just select a different type of output module for these small loads.
BD
 
mulderm,
After reading the manual further it recommends a 2.5k ,10watt resistor.
Damn, that thing would be the size of my thumb. Must be a better way.
They are fairly cheap though (1.2 US dollars). Not sure where you can get one where your at. Maybe better to use a oldfashioned mechanical type relay instaed of the opto type if possible. Ohm's law tells me that a 2.5k resistor would draw 50ma @125volts. And 6.25 watts. Damn triacs!
BD
 
No need to blame the triacs, the module, and the triac's are doing exactly what they are designed to. It is the application that is faulty here.

Either parallel a relay across the output, or put a resistor there, or a pilot lamp, or a solenoid, or any other load that will actively bring the leakage down to neutral.

Better, if using opto's, would be to switch to a relay or transistor output module.
 
Greetings Mulderm,



you’ll eventually get this problem fixed ... but the fact that you’re asking these particular questions indicates that you might not really understand some of the SAFETY! aspects of using the triac type modules ... so to try to save you (and other readers) some unnecessary grief, here’s a reprint of another post ...



A scary story -

A technician needs to work on a motor starter - nothing fancy - just a plain-old everyday three-pole contactor with a 120 VAC coil. And incidentally, the coil is controlled by a solid-state triac-type AC output module on a PLC system. So the technician makes durn sure that the 480 VAC, 3-phase line power is disconnected - and locked-out and tagged-out - and checks with his meter to make sure that the juice is really off. Good - so much for the high voltage stuff.

Now the 120 volt AC coil voltage can be easily controlled by the PLC - so the technician just forces the proper output off - and confirms that the coil drops out. Yes, indeed - the LED for the coil’s output is off. And a meter test across the coil terminals indicates that there is less than 1 VAC showing up there. Well, that’s probably just a “false” kind of reading - maybe coupling in from nearby wiring. Anyway, less than 1 volt isn’t going to hurt anything. So now it’s OK to climb in amongst the wiring and fix the contactor - right?

What’s wrong with this picture?

The contactor coil is “loading” the circuit - and “draining off” the leakage current - and so the meter reading looks acceptably low. But a SERIOUS problem shows up once the wiring to the coil has been disconnected. Then there will be NO load on the output circuit - and the voltage will “float” up to its applied voltage level - 120 VAC. Now ... if the technician just happens to brush against that coil feed wire ... this could get very ugly. Especially if the technician happens to be wet with sweat and making good contact with something grounded.

The fact is - to the technician’s skin - that trickle of “leakage” current is going to feel just like a 120 VAC live wire - EVEN THOUGH THE PLC OUTPUT IS OFF! Now some people will say: “Well, that’s going to be a very low current signal - not enough to really hurt you.” Yeah - maybe so. The shock might not hurt you - but it can sure make you hurt yourself.




finally ... if you decide to mount a “dropping” resistor in parallel with the load to fix your problem, make sure that it is mounted safely ... basic idea: when the output eventually turns ON, then the resistor has line voltage applied - and it becomes a small heater ... depending on its resistance value, etc. it can get hot enough to melt wiring insulation and damage other components ...
 
Ron,
It's good that you are making others aware of the potential dangers.
Ha..Ha.. I made a funny.. "potential" dangers... get it Ha..Ha.. anyhow,
thats why I always refer to them as damn triacs, I had one bite me.
I just knew that output was off. Not an injury luckily, but unpleasent is the word I'll use.
Gobble Gobble
BD
 
Thank you for the information Ron, it´s good to know.
By the way, I have used a 15K 1W resistor parallel about
the Optocoupler.
It works now good.
Now there is a 20V ac by a low signal output.

Kind Regards,

mulderm
 

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