SCADA software selection

I'm almost afraid to ask, but with a broad question you usually get a variety of opinions...

We are looking a selecting a SCADA software package for a variety of projects we have coming up. It would need to interface with AB Controllogix, SLCs, Micrologix, Mitsubish FX2Ns, Siemens S7-300, S7-400, and even an old S5, Red Lion G3s, and a variety of serial ASCII protocol devices that would probably have to be put up on Ethernet somehow.

We would prefer that the clients be web based and data logging be done in MsSQL or MySQL.

Also while most of them can be scale up to support huge systems, most of ours would be single client systems and we would like them to be able to run on a small touch panel PC.

Recommendations?

Thanks
TW

I think you will always get a biased opinion based on user experience. I know i am certainly biased towards the product that i use the most.

At the end of the day it comes down to the following questions.

Size of application. I find some packages are better for small skid type applications and other are better for big sites.

Big sites, selection of a package which can scale horizontally. Example if i add more plant i can just add more machines and it doesnt impact on my application performance.

Costs. Some SCADA applications can be rather expensive even for small plant applications.

Support. Is the product well supported in the areas where you operate.

We have recently gone through product selections processes. I would recommend setting up a "Scoring System" of 1-5 and define a list of criteria.

First narrow down the competition.

Product A
Product B
Product C

Then try and get people that know each of the product to score each product.

Example.

1. Cost for Small Plant license
2. Cost for Medium Plant license
3. Cost for Large Plant license
4. Product Support locally
5. Product System Integrator Locally
6. Historian
7. Alarm Management
8. Product interface to IO providers (PLCs)
9. Product Scalability
10. Ease of use
11. Diagnostic capability


This is the only way which you can determine which product is best for your requirements.

I would look at the major players though.


My preference is Wonderware System Platform with Topserver/Kepware IOserver. A biased opinion off course.

Good luck

I'm going to go ahead and say for your criteria, you should install and experiment with Inductive Automation Ignition software.

Ignition includes a free OPC-UA server with drivers for ControlLogix and SLC/MicroLogix, as well as S7-300, S7-400, and S7-1200, and Modbus/TCP.

For the FX2N and S5 you'll need an OPC-UA server of your own (I recommend Kepware) and you can connect to Red Lion G3's over Modbus/TCP.

Ignition has a serial device software module that might work for your serial devices, or you might need some other gateway device like HMS Communicator or Red Lion DataStation Plus.

Ignition is built around SQL databases; you'll see that the ordinary HMI tags are all stored in SQL databases and are even called "SQLTags". I've done all my projects with MySQL, but the four default connectors are for Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL, and PostgreSQL.

Ignition is written in Java and is launched using the Java Web Start function. Your client computers will need Java 6 or Java 7 but do not need any client or runtime software installed.

Ignition actually aims pretty large: their typical clients are food processors, tank farms, water utilities, that sort of thing. They typically sell an unlimited license to a facility, rather than for a machine. Systems with tens of thousands of tags are not uncommon.

But I've also bought small OEM licenses from them, to run on a tiny $300 embedded Linux box. The thing was drawing 12 watts and running the database and visualization server without a hiccup.

Ignition's not perfect. They don't integrate with Windows as deeply as something like Indusoft Web Studio. They don't tie as closely to ControlLogix as FactoryTalk View. You'll need to learn a little Python and SQL syntax eventually. The display scaling and "anchoring" takes a while to get used to.

I'm doing a machine right now where we grabbed a PanelView Plus and did the test HMI in FactoryTalk View ME just because it was easy and fast. The next machine after that will use Indusoft Web Studio because we are relying on some software add-ons that are only available as ActiveX controls.

But I ran into a problem with the ControlLogix drivers in Indusoft... I haven't figure it out or had time to call Tech Support. Ignition's OPC-UA server just browses beautifully.

And I spent three hours writing a painful PLC-based navigation method in FactoryTalk View because I can't "set a value to a tag, then open a screen" with a single pushbutton. That's a trivial expression script in Ignition.

I am a huge proponent of ignition. It is extremely powerful and with the right people doing the programming, there is really no limit to what you can do. The licensing structure is really nice and the cost is much less than most of the larger scada softwares. Also, the support has been top notch and the software is constantly updated with new features along with bug corrections. They also have a forum like this one where users can go for FREE support. I also love the openness of the product. I can go on their website and download a fully functioning version that will run for 2 hours and can be reset infinitely. Most of the larger scada software companies wont even let you download a manual without having to give your life story or even pay, much less let you get access to a free support forum, examples, along with a fully functional trial version. Thats how I like to do business.

but it really boils down to what fits your project and what you are comfortable with.

+1 on Ignition :site:

Their licensing strategy is to be admired. The best bang for your buck I've seen. Start on a single client, and add as you need. Highly scalable and you only need to purchase the add-on modules if, or when you require them.

Also when you make changes you can preview in a staging client before simply rolling them out to the clients from the development PC at the click of the mouse.

One pet peeve I have is that for speed reasons the OPC-UA server only browses PLC tags to the word level. That's fine for numerical data, but (unless I've missed something) any tags you need at the bit level you have manually "create" from the imported words. This can be time consuming if you have a large tag database imported.

The community can also give back by creating useful modules of their own that users can add to their Ignition SCADA systems.

I have a 1-to-1 contact with a support rep who has been very helpful and has provided me with hours of free video tutorials, which normally cost $100's, and also in the beginning gave me 30-day licences to trial their software.

Most definitely did not get any of that from the other vendors.

Ignition ticks just about all of RheinhardtP's list in my opinion, which I don't feel is too biased, having worked with most of the others major vendors' offerings...AB, SIEMENS, Wonderware, Schneider, Indusoft, Zenon, etc.

While you're shopping around, I would recommend you download the trial software and see for yourself.

G.

Ken Roach said:

But I've also bought small OEM licenses from them, to run on a tiny $300 embedded Linux box. The thing was drawing 12 watts and running the database and visualization server without a hiccup.

Click to expand...

Do you mean their lite version? Or is OEM something different?

Inductive Automation offers the Vision module at no charge, and also has a "Lite" installation with a limited number of tags.

What I referred to as an "OEM" license was a specifically-negotiated purchase for a license with limits even smaller than the "Lite" version, based on a handful of commercial factors. Because the pricing, capacity, and other factors vary widely, these pricing agreements are done directly between the customer and IA.

Indusoft would be my 1st choice. Solid product at very reasonable pricing.

Only hope that now that they have been bought by Invensys I do not see what I have seen many times before when a small/mid size company is bought by a much larger one.........increase in price and decrease in quality.

I would recommend Citect, as it has all the drivers for PLC you have mentioned included and it only counts "hard" I/Os. Most of other SCADAs require additional cost for drivers, and some of them count even internal tags.

+1 for Ignition

Other SCADA packages just seem out of date when you have tried this.

Geospark said:

One pet peeve I have is that for speed reasons the OPC-UA server only browses PLC tags to the word level. That's fine for numerical data, but (unless I've missed something) any tags you need at the bit level you have manually "create" from the imported words. This can be time consuming if you have a large tag database imported.

Click to expand...

have you looked at using the ialabs scripting module to create your tags thru scripting?

Thanks for your choices and your detailed elaborations.

I left my opinions out because I wanted a good 3rd party review but surprisingly, or perhaps not, my top choices were all mentioned.

It had really come down to Ignition and Indusoft but the Invensys buyout tipped the scales towards Ignition.

I've watched them since the old days of FactorySQL and they have really developed into a top notch application.

The interface seems really user friendly, the tag browsing was simple, and the database is SQL which happens to be the only database I'm fluent in.

It has a few quirks that probably have more to do with me learning the software than anything.

I'm very interested in being able to create custom modules though I don't know how to yet.

Ken. Was that $300 Linux box hooked to any type of touch panel? I'm still investigating hardware options.

TWControls said:

It has a few quirks that probably have more to do with me learning the software than anything.

Click to expand...

dont be afraid to ask. what Ive found is that there is usually 3 or 4 ways to accomplish a typical task in ignition and the best way is not always readily apparent to someone just starting out with the software.

Oh I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions in the coming year

Prefer Citect with its direct drivers - not a fan of OPC - tried again recently with OPC to 14 PLCs and more to come - too darn slow. And yes, it was an industry leading OPC licence I bought.