Kataeb
Member
Is there any difference between Profinet and Industrial Ethernet ? Same hardware is used for both ? Same softwares ? Thank you
Profinet = Industrial Ethernet ?
- Thread starter Kataeb
- Start date
widelto
Member
Office grade Ethernet is not robust or deterministic.
Rockwell developed Ethernet/IP (Industrial Protocol)
Siemens developed Profinet
Both Rockwell and Siemens modified the 7-layer Ethernet message to achieve a higher level of determinism.
We use them both.
Siemens advertises that Profinet can use C.O.T.S. Ethernet switches (commercial off-the-shelf).
Rockwell says you need proprietary Ethernet hardware to support their IP protocol.
Rockwell developed Ethernet/IP (Industrial Protocol)
Siemens developed Profinet
Both Rockwell and Siemens modified the 7-layer Ethernet message to achieve a higher level of determinism.
We use them both.
Siemens advertises that Profinet can use C.O.T.S. Ethernet switches (commercial off-the-shelf).
Rockwell says you need proprietary Ethernet hardware to support their IP protocol.
Peter Nachtwey
Member
What Siemens calls Industrial Ethernet used the AG_SEND and AG_RECV. You had to build your own header. The Siemens version of Industrial Ethernet is slow and painful to implement. The newer ProfiNet is much faster and easier for the user to implement. If you must use Siemens then use ProfiNet.
gtg142r
Member
Ethernet resides in a different OSI layer than does Ethernet/IP or ProfiNet. Each layer in the OSI model appends a header and/or a trailer to the data being sent. Most switches only care about information as high as layer 2 (the layer Ethernet resides in) and the end devices (i.e. PLCs or drives) care about the higher layers that are needed. Ethernet/IP and ProfiNet reside in layer 4 of the OSI model so your switches really don't care. When traffic has to be routed, routing is a protocol of layer 3 and thus doesn't actually care about the industrial protocols either.
The bottom line is that your switches really don't care about the industrial protocol being used and they should communicate with no problem. Ethernet/IP and ProfiNet use the same hardware but are different protocols.
The bottom line is that your switches really don't care about the industrial protocol being used and they should communicate with no problem. Ethernet/IP and ProfiNet use the same hardware but are different protocols.
gtg142r
Member
If you're using older versions of RSLogix5000 where multicasting is very prevalent then what Dravik posted holds true. However, I believe it occurred in v19 of Logix5000 that unicast traffic became the default selection on communications and as such IGMP snooping is not as necessary as it was in the past. ProfiNet has always been unicast whereas Ethernet/IP has only supported unicast in recent revisions.
NetNathan
Lifetime Supporting Member
I am running an Ethernet/IP installation with 16 Ethernet/IP devices connected to a centrally located Rockwell 5700 managed switch (not in control cabinet).
The Controllogix CPU is connected to the 5700 thru an industrial rated Ethernet switch (to allow a connection point in the control cabinet for troubleshooting with RSLogix5000).
I haven't noticed any issues....that I can see....should I worry?
y2kmfic
Lifetime Supporting Member
Responding OP..
In the Siemens world, IE is typically used for processor to processor communications, where PROFINET can be used for both CPU to CPU and I/O control.
In contrast to what others have posted here, IE is very easy to implement on S7-300 CPUs. It gets a bit more complicated when using S7-1200 or S7-200.
In the Siemens world, IE is typically used for processor to processor communications, where PROFINET can be used for both CPU to CPU and I/O control.
In contrast to what others have posted here, IE is very easy to implement on S7-300 CPUs. It gets a bit more complicated when using S7-1200 or S7-200.
Our test lab uses non Industrial Rated Ethernet switches without any problem (slightly untrue, if all 10 of us attempt to connect to different PLCs at the same time generally we have a problem, but normally when there are 3 or 4 people working there is no issues). My personal set up here goes from my laptop via another non industrial rated ethernet switch, to the central non industraial rated ethernet switch and then to what ever PLC I need.
Also a local factory where one of our clients has 20plus machines installed, they use a cisco rack switch which every PLC and every HMI is connected to. Again no issues.
Personally I think your fine!
FactoryTalktotheHand
Member
They SAY that, but I've never run into an issue. For simple applications a regular Ethernet switch works fine. I only use their fancy stuff when I have a network with a lot of drives and I/O.
FactoryTalktotheHand
Member
No. The only issue with Ethernet/IP is if it's on the same physical network as a TCP/IP office network. Sounds like yours is physically separated and on it's own isolated network. You should be fine.
For Ethernet I/P -
If you are using multicast communications and switches w/out IGMP snooping get the multicast packets, it simply isn't discrimenent where those packets go.
For smallish networks w/out a lot of devices, you'd probably never notice the difference.
As the amount of multicast comms increase(or if you share a network w/ other things as FactoryTalkToTheHand pointed out) you may start to have issues w/ port flooding and whatnot.
If you are running all newer FWs and have everything in unicast, then you REALLY don't have to worry about it!
If you are using multicast communications and switches w/out IGMP snooping get the multicast packets, it simply isn't discrimenent where those packets go.
For smallish networks w/out a lot of devices, you'd probably never notice the difference.
As the amount of multicast comms increase(or if you share a network w/ other things as FactoryTalkToTheHand pointed out) you may start to have issues w/ port flooding and whatnot.
If you are running all newer FWs and have everything in unicast, then you REALLY don't have to worry about it!
mellis
Member
Can you provide a reference for this?
This is news to me. Rockwell loves to sell their Ethernet switches, true. But I have never seen anything that says there is anything proprietary about Ethernet/IP. To the best of my knowledge, it is an open standard.
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