Getting Closes on My Red Lion Project

I could really use some insight on a Red Lion project.
I have been reading and using YouTube and have actually made some progress. Right now I have comms from my UTM-S Transmitter to the Red Lion DSP communicating via RS485 where the DSP is the master. I believe I also have comms between the Red Lion DSP to the processor. I say I believe because the status light on the DSP enet port are working and I can ping the DSP if I plug into the switch in the cabinet that both devices are plugged into.

This is where my problem is now. I am not passing information. I believe that I linked my Holding Registers to my L5K files correctly. this is my first MODBUS experiance though and I am unsure. In the UTM-S transmitter manual there is a register map that says the Flow rate long integer is 40602-40603. 602 being the word high. I linked 40602 to a PLC integer tag and received no data. I then tried to link it to a plc DINT. NO data.

Please send any ideas my way.

Take your problem and break it in half (divide and conquer!). I am assuming your "link" as you describe is done with a gateway block.

Make a Tag also linked to the same registers from your transmitter. Put that tag on a Page you can look at to see if the value is coming in correctly.

Then you will know if that data is there before you tackle the other half (getting it linked to the PLC).

If you want to test comms to the PLC, you might also put a tag on that "test page" to view one of the tags in your L5K file.

Another thing I like to do in Crimson is to create a tag called "Comms_Status_X" where I replace X with a meaningful name for each device.

In the Source field for the tag, put IsDeviceOnline; where "n" is the port number being used for communication to the device. I like to set up that tag with alarming and some delay so that when communication is lost, I get an alarm in my alarm banner. I have found that in many cases the Red Lion HMI is up and running much faster than the PLC or other device, so the delay time for the alarm will vary.

Also, the value returned by IsDeviceOnline will vary depending on the type of communication. The Crimson 3.0 help sometimes helps identify what is a good value. Working from memory, a returned value of zero means the device is offline, so I have successfully used a Flag Tag (bit) for my Comms_Status tag even though IsDeviceOnline returns and integer.

Paul

Thanks for responding. I created a tag and linked it to the register. Will I need to go to the Watch Window? I tried to do that but the tags are not in the window. If I right click I am not allowed to add the tag. to view.

House92 said:

Thanks for responding. I created a tag and linked it to the register. Will I need to go to the Watch Window? I tried to do that but the tags are not in the window. If I right click I am not allowed to add the tag. to view.

Click to expand...

Are you using the emulator or real hardware? What is the target of your cd3 file? Is it running a mission critical application right now?

I would just make a new screen (display page) and provide a navigation button to get to it, then add the tag (drag and drop) to that screen, transfer the file to the device and navigate to that screen. I've only used their HMI's with a graphic display and the emulator but, from what I understand, the "headless" units may require that you use a web browser to view any graphics you download to them.

The watch window can work too. If I recall, you must be connected and the projects must match, then you have to drag and drop the tag to the watch window, and then you have to start the "watch".

I was plugged into DSP via usb and could download ect. I went to try the Watch Window and still was unable to add tags.

I am using hardware: Spirax UTM Transmitter sending info via MODBUS to a RedLion DSP. The DSP is the Master. From there I go to a swithch via enet linking us to the AB processor.

The UTM runs to the rs485 on the DSP. I ran a 4 twisted pair cable with 1/7 and 2/8 landing on TxA-TxB of the transmitter. then to the RS485 port of the transmitter. The DSP data sheet shows this shematic. Does the RS485 port need to be configured? I did not see where it needed to be.

House92 said:

I was plugged into DSP via usb and could download ect. I went to try the Watch Window and still was unable to add tags.

Click to expand...

My bad. You right click on the Tag and there should appear a list of options, one of which is "Add to Watch List". I opened Crimson and went to Help... Contents to open the user manual. Next I searched for "Watch Window" in the pdf file. The manual is pretty handy and easy reading although a bit thin on details in some places. Context sensitive help from Crimson by hitting F1 is available for many topics when the software has pointer focus.

The manual may tell you how to see pages on a DSP. I pretty sure that you can create pages for a DSP if you choose to, but the watch window should work once you get tags in it and hit the "View Online" button.

Since you are using a DSP, I am not sure how to view pages via USB or if that is even possible.

House92 said:

I am using hardware: Spirax UTM Transmitter sending info via MODBUS to a RedLion DSP. The DSP is the Master. From there I go to a swithch via enet linking us to the AB processor.

The UTM runs to the rs485 on the DSP. I ran a 4 twisted pair cable with 1/7 and 2/8 landing on TxA-TxB of the transmitter. then to the RS485 port of the transmitter. The DSP data sheet shows this shematic. Does the RS485 port need to be configured? I did not see where it needed to be.

Click to expand...

Yes, you need to enable the port for RS485 by choosing a protocol. Go to "Communications" in the lower left workspace of Crimson. Highlight the RS485 port in the upper tree of devices and settings. Then in the main window, click on the "Pick" button next to the Driver field. In the list of drivers. Select what is appropriate for your device in the alphabetic list on the left (Modbus). Then the Modbus options will appear on the right. Choose Universal Master.

Once that is done, all the other Modbus options like baud rates and timing properties will be displayed for your review and adjustment to match your sensor.

After you have done all that, a new device will appear in the tree on the left under the RS485 port. You can right click it and rename it after your device if you like. When you click on the device, another slough of options appears for it. Pay attention to word ordering and drop numbers since you are using a multi-drop protocol, and there are a number of other details that should default to the most common settings, but are worthy of a review.

Thanks Okie. I am still at it in between keeping the plant running. I feel like my set up is good on the Red Lion(I'm Optomistic). I am still getting no value in my controller. I have a solid Red Light on 485 port. Should it be blinking? manual does not specify. The transmitter has a terminl for ModBus A,B,and Ground. If you compare that to the 2 wire schematic for the DSP it is a little confusing. 1 and 7 should be landed on A. 2 and 8 on B. 6 is the ground. It also shows 5 as the TxEn. Is this needed? I do not have a terminal on the UTM Flow Meter.

Can you post your Crimson file here? I'm sure we could take a look at it and see if things look ok setup wise.

I will def post when I get in tonight. I will also post the UTM transmitters MODBUS registers. I used big endian. I just spoke to a rep at SPIRAX (Transmitter) and they advised me to use the "little endian". Any thoughts on this making a difference?

Also. I spoke with Red Lion and told them that I was seeing a flahing green LED as well as a solid red LED on the 485 port. The rep then asked what I saw with RS485 unplugged. I told him there was only a flashing green LED. He said this told him that my port was good and it is either the cable or the transmitter. The baud rate is 9600 on both devices and it is the only slave so the address should be good. I rang the cable out and it was good.

Here is the CD3.

I have tried Little Endian 40102 and 40103. I have also tried Big Endian 40602 and 40603.
I was also wondering about the charts column title Long Integer Format. Does that mean my tag needs to be a DINT and I need to choose Word as Long rather then Word as Word? I tried both.

I am trying to see flow right now. Red Lion rep said to use wires 7, 8, and 6 for the ground.

House92 said:

Here is the CD3.

I have tried Little Endian 40102 and 40103. I have also tried Big Endian 40602 and 40603.
I was also wondering about the charts column title Long Integer Format. Does that mean my tag needs to be a DINT and I need to choose Word as Long rather then Word as Word? I tried both.

I am trying to see flow right now. Red Lion rep said to use wires 7, 8, and 6 for the ground.

Click to expand...

You would use Word as Long, but I would move over to the single precision float in the 402xx range, personally. However, Modbus Word and Byte Order is the most difficult thing to figure out because it seems that everyone does it a different way. Get your comms figured out first and make sure you are receiving *something* and then play with the settings. Crimson is highly configurable and you can swap stuff until the values read correctly.

Even if you decide to stick with a Long Integer, the Word order is going to have to be figured out.

Let me say that typically swapping the Word ordering in the Device Setup from High Then Low or Low Then High will normally get you where you need to be as long as you set the tag starting address correctly. Set it for both "In Long Blocks" and "In Real Blocks" - they are typically the same.

Finally, don't allow tags to address the same registers during the test. If you want to read single word integers just to see if there is some data being received, you can usually do this (assuming the slave doesn't complain), but don't be reading a Long or Real using the same registers at the same time. It just doesn't seem to like this most of the time. Once you see communications, get rid of the single word (16 bit Integers) and use either Long or Real as appropriate and swap the Word Order and see if either gives you the correct values. If neither way does, then look at which of the registers (say 40102 or 40103) you have used in your tag addressing. As a test, swap to the other one and then try swapping the Word Order.

This is the hunt and peck, trial and error method. I'm sure there is a more scientific method, but since everyone seems to implement the Modbus protocol differently, I have found this method works the best.

Well. Where to start. I went to work on days to meet with service rep. He ran into the same issues that I was finding. After a couple hours of effort we started making some more phone calls. Finally the manufacturer of the transmitter asked for the part number. He then started to laugh. Your device is not capable of Modbus RTU. You have the TCP/IP version. Only thing is there is no RJ45 port. I am sorry for bothering you guys with this. I should have compared to BOM. New transmitter is on the way.

I learned some things though: This site is awesome. ModBus is not as bad as I thought. Used a free software called Simply ModBus along with a RS485 to USB connector to see if the transmitter was sending any data. Pretty neat. Red Lion DSP is a awesome piece of hardware as well as Crimson 3. With the help of Okie and a few others I can nav through pretty easy. Figured out how to link tags in the AB PLC to the Crimson. Good experience. Thanks Guys!