Red Lion Master Slide Overlay

Crimson 3.0 build 579.003, programming a G308A210.

I have a display page set up as a master slide. I have the usual alarm banner across the bottom, which works beautifully since all of the other screens are blank there. I would like to add a menu overlay where the operator could hit the "MENU" button and have it show a rectangle with prompts identifying each of the hardware keys. I may add some touch cells to it as well. The visibility is easy to do, but I would like the menu to pop up and cover the other stuff on each screen. It's showing up behind everything right now. I can make it work by copy-pasting the group onto each other display, but it would make more sense to me to have it on the master slide so I only have to make changes in one place.

Any ideas? Is this a feature that's available in newer releases of the software?

I know I'm using an older version of the software, but we have a bunch of these HMIs in service and supporting them all is easier if we stick to one version (another rant for another day, I think).

joseph_e2 said:

Crimson 3.0 build 579.003, programming a G308A210.

I have a display page set up as a master slide. I have the usual alarm banner across the bottom, which works beautifully since all of the other screens are blank there. I would like to add a menu overlay where the operator could hit the "MENU" button and have it show a rectangle with prompts identifying each of the hardware keys. I may add some touch cells to it as well. The visibility is easy to do, but I would like the menu to pop up and cover the other stuff on each screen. It's showing up behind everything right now. I can make it work by copy-pasting the group onto each other display, but it would make more sense to me to have it on the master slide so I only have to make changes in one place.

Any ideas? Is this a feature that's available in newer releases of the software?

I know I'm using an older version of the software, but we have a bunch of these HMIs in service and supporting them all is easier if we stick to one version (another rant for another day, I think).

Click to expand...

Use the Menu Key to call a page as a "Popup Menu". Configure the Page the way you want.

I call a popup menu and it has 9 buttons on it. Each one calls a program and passes a variable to the program running a select function. The neat thing about this is that you can either touch the button (which in my case is invisible) or the G315 hardware button. You don't have to do any programming on the hardware button, it works automatically. The attached picture doesn't show the real menu, but it should give you an idea.

Don't worry about the Master Slide, you don't need to do anything with it, just don't attach the Master Slide to the page that is the Popup Menu.

Ok, this is not working well. I have the buttons (visible for now until I get it working right). How does it decide which touch button to activate for each hardware button? The first buttons I tried would work kind of for a few of them but not all. I couldn't figure out the pattern, but suspect it was due to the alignment. They look perfectly aligned in Crimson, but not on the HMI.

So, I tried a different tack. The G308 has 6 hardware buttons and is 480 pixels tall. So I created 6 buttons, each 80 pixels tall. All touch buttons work properly, but the bottom 2 hardware buttons trigger the next touch button higher.
Attachment "Menu1.jpg" is my menu.

If I push the hardware button next to "DRIVE DIAGNOSTICS", it will activate the "INDICATORS" touch button and if I hit the hardware button next to "ALARM HISTORY", it activates the "DRIVE DIAGNOSTICS" touch button.

"Menu2_Smaller.jpg" is a photo of how it looks when I push the bottom hardware button.

What am I doing wrong?

Edited to add:
I also noticed that the "MENU" button that shows the popup menu cannot be global but must be local for each display. If it's set global, it won't work at all. That is weird and not very nice at all.

joseph_e2 said:

Ok, this is not working well. I have the buttons (visible for now until I get it working right). How does it decide which touch button to activate for each hardware button? The first buttons I tried would work kind of for a few of them but not all. I couldn't figure out the pattern, but suspect it was due to the alignment. They look perfectly aligned in Crimson, but not on the HMI.

So, I tried a different tack. The G308 has 6 hardware buttons and is 480 pixels tall. So I created 6 buttons, each 80 pixels tall. All touch buttons work properly, but the bottom 2 hardware buttons trigger the next touch button higher.
Attachment "Menu1.jpg" is my menu.

If I push the hardware button next to "DRIVE DIAGNOSTICS", it will activate the "INDICATORS" touch button and if I hit the hardware button next to "ALARM HISTORY", it activates the "DRIVE DIAGNOSTICS" touch button.

"Menu2_Smaller.jpg" is a photo of how it looks when I push the bottom hardware button.

What am I doing wrong?

Edited to add:
I also noticed that the "MENU" button that shows the popup menu cannot be global but must be local for each display. If it's set global, it won't work at all. That is weird and not very nice at all.

Click to expand...

Mine is set to Global - Nothing is on Local. Make sure none of your buttons are set to Local, and none are set to Global, either. They will work with the Popup Menu, but you *have* to load it via Open Page as Popup Menu.

My buttons are 215x57, but this is on a G315. They line up right beside the Hardware buttons.

When you get this working, use the IsPressed variable to add neat functionality. My buttons (as you can see on my picture) are hidden because they are the same color as the background. I use IsPressed to turn the Text Color Blue and the Background Color White.

1. Remove all Local and Global actions from the hardware buttons.
2. Set the Menu Button Global to Open the Popup Menu
3. Configure your Page for the Popup Menu with buttons that call programs or do commands.
4. Make your buttons smaller than you have them. My guess is that they may be encroaching on each other. As I said above mine are 57 high (times 9 = 513) and a G315 is 768 Pixels high. My 57 pixel buttons are 85 pixels from the top of one to the top of the next. Just center them on your hardware buttons.

Note: My buttons call a program called Menus.Main(I) were I is replaced by the number 1 to 9. The program uses a Switch/Case function to call other programs or do commands. Case 9 typically tells the display to load a second menu so that I can have multi page menus. The Second Menu Popup calls Menus.Main2(I).

My typical project has two popup menus and then two more for trend screens.

If you want to post your configuration, I'll take a quick look at it, but again, you can't have it always visible, you have to call it as a popup menu.

1) Except for "MENU", ALL hardware buttons are unconfigured, global/local on all screens
2) The "MENU" button is configured local on all displays to "Goto Page", and to load the page as a popup menu. Except on the Menu display itself, where it's set to User Defined and "HidePopup()"

So, when I set the "MENU" button as global, it did nothing at all. No popup, nothing. All I did was right-click on it and "Make local", then set it the same on all of the displays. That part works just fine. I think it's an alignment thing, but the buttons look like they're "perfectly" aligned in Crimson, but they're a little off in real life.

So, I made the buttons half as tall but kept them on the same "centers". In Crimson, they look perfectly aligned (Menu3.jpg), in real life, not so much (Menu4_Smaller.jpg)

The project is also zipped and attached. When I took the picture, the hardware buttons for "Manual" and "Auto" work as intended, the ones by "Data Entry", "Indicators", and "Drive Diagnostics" don't do anything at all, and the hardware button next to "Alarm History" executes the "Drive Diagnostics" touch button.

I'm going to try to play with alignment a little and see what happens.

After rearranging things, I was able to get all of the hardware buttons to work, but in a way that renders the touch buttons totally unusable. See Menu5.png for a screenshot of Crimson and Menu6_Smaller.jpg for a photo of the actual HMI. The hardware buttons all work "properly".

Also note that, if I move the "Manual" button down so it's evenly spaced with the others, its corresponding Hardware button doesn't work any more.

I think I may need to involve Red Lion tech support on this one.

joseph_e2 said:

After rearranging things, I was able to get all of the hardware buttons to work, but in a way that renders the touch buttons totally unusable. See Menu5.png for a screenshot of Crimson and Menu6_Smaller.jpg for a photo of the actual HMI. The hardware buttons all work "properly".

Also note that, if I move the "Manual" button down so it's evenly spaced with the others, its corresponding Hardware button doesn't work any more.

I think I may need to involve Red Lion tech support on this one.

Click to expand...

It shouldn't matter, but try adding a TouchCal function to your display and the calibrate it to see what happens. It is one of the System Primitives.

joseph_e2 said:

After rearranging things, I was able to get all of the hardware buttons to work, but in a way that renders the touch buttons totally unusable. See Menu5.png for a screenshot of Crimson and Menu6_Smaller.jpg for a photo of the actual HMI. The hardware buttons all work "properly".

Also note that, if I move the "Manual" button down so it's evenly spaced with the others, its corresponding Hardware button doesn't work any more.

I think I may need to involve Red Lion tech support on this one.

Click to expand...

Also, move the ALARM RESET from your Master Slide - it is interfering with your bottom menu button. This is probably your primary problem.

Edit - I'm almost 100% sure that is your problem.

Now, I don't know about why the Global doesn't work, I've done over 100 displays (although none have been G308) and they all work properly.

joseph_e2 said:

After rearranging things, I was able to get all of the hardware buttons to work, but in a way that renders the touch buttons totally unusable. See Menu5.png for a screenshot of Crimson and Menu6_Smaller.jpg for a photo of the actual HMI. The hardware buttons all work "properly".

Also note that, if I move the "Manual" button down so it's evenly spaced with the others, its corresponding Hardware button doesn't work any more.

I think I may need to involve Red Lion tech support on this one.

Click to expand...

On the Global Issue, I recommend you remove the HidePopup() from the menu key. Again, try it with NOTHING on Local for EVERY page. I suspect that the fact that it is on your template as a Local is interfering with the Global.

Put a Timeout on your Menu Page Properties and set it to HidePopup() on Timeout. Mine is 15 seconds but you can do whatever works best for you.

Also, make sure that Master Slide is disabled on the More Page Properties, you have it enabled. That might allow you to leaver your Alarm Acknowledge where it was.

JHarbin said:

It shouldn't matter, but try adding a TouchCal function to your display and the calibrate it to see what happens. It is one of the System Primitives.

Click to expand...

Already did that, before starting this thread. The touch functions work properly.

JHarbin said:

Also, move the ALARM RESET from your Master Slide - it is interfering with your bottom menu button. This is probably your primary problem.

Edit - I'm almost 100% sure that is your problem.

Now, I don't know about why the Global doesn't work, I've done over 100 displays (although none have been G308) and they all work properly.

Click to expand...

Deleted the alarm reset button, no change in behavior. I didn't really expect it, since the problem existed even when the popup was opened on a blank screen that didn't use a Master Slide.

Frankly, it shouldn't matter at all what buttons are on the screen, Master Slide or not. Having a popup menu would be pretty useless if there couldn't be buttons on the main screen under it. I would just put the screen indicators on the main screen and be done.

I've started a support ticket with Red Lion and will try to remember to update this thread with the outcome.

Thanks for your help!

joseph_e2 said:

Already did that, before starting this thread. The touch functions work properly.



Deleted the alarm reset button, no change in behavior. I didn't really expect it, since the problem existed even when the popup was opened on a blank screen that didn't use a Master Slide.

Frankly, it shouldn't matter at all what buttons are on the screen, Master Slide or not. Having a popup menu would be pretty useless if there couldn't be buttons on the main screen under it. I would just put the screen indicators on the main screen and be done.

I've started a support ticket with Red Lion and will try to remember to update this thread with the outcome.

Thanks for your help!

Click to expand...

See my last post regarding disabling the Master Slide Input when popups are open. You have control over that.

JHarbin said:

...Also, make sure that Master Slide is disabled on the More Page Properties, you have it enabled. That might allow you to leaver your Alarm Acknowledge where it was.

Click to expand...

I disabled it on all displays, and still have the alarm reset deleted. No change.

joseph_e2 said:

I disabled it on all displays, and still have the alarm reset deleted. No change.

Click to expand...

Post your current config.

I have a ticket open with Red Lion, and I need to leave for the evening. I'll be back in the morning to attack this some more.

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it.

joseph_e2 said:

I have a ticket open with Red Lion, and I need to leave for the evening. I'll be back in the morning to attack this some more.

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it.

Click to expand...

You still have Local Menu Settings. Once you get them removed and tested again, post your updated configuration.