200 IO, 40 Analog Input

[Martindag]

We will soon combine some application together and counting around 150-200 digital input/output total and around 40 analog input 4-20ma, 5 analog output 4-20ma and like 25 RTD input for temp control and put the control on monitoring on few PC and the main control on a HMI.

Most of the application is nothing too special, Start and Stop,drive control, temperature control of my tank and control for batch controller, water counter.

Would you rather go for a big PLC or like a DCS ?

And which brand would you choose ?

We got soon product from Allen bradley (rsview, rslogix500, rslogix5000) and from schneider (Unity pro, advantys, Vijeo designer)
We are famillar with these product also for troubleshooting and programming.

Also cost is important for this projet, if its too expensive it could be a reason to not do the switch for now.

Thanks for your feedback

 

[tragically1969]

Would you rather go for a big PLC or like a DCS ?

Not sure I would describe that as a big PLC system, the M340 would handle that without an issue, what's given you main concern for even mentioning DCS ?

 

[Martindag]

I only worked with PLC and never DCS, but from what i hear maybe its ********, but for that much analog input and RTD to deal with, DCS would do a better job.

 

[tragically1969]

I only worked with PLC and never DCS, but from what i hear maybe its ********, but for that much analog input and RTD to deal with, DCS would do a better job.

Not sure what the asterix is hiding, over zealous profanity filter i guess.

DCS it is then, sounds like you have made your decision.

Personally I would be doing it on M340 or M580......those numbers are small fry for PLC's

 

[Martindag]

You know what , we have atm a M340 on the floor with a Magelis HMI in standby for a other project for over a year now. If you think it can handle it No problem, We could try to convert it into this new project ans safe alot on the cost... Doesnt seem that the old project is going anywhere anyway lol.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[jethridge]

I'd say either AB ControlLogix or Schneider's Modicon. I personally prefer Schneider mostly because of price and you can create some slick HMI's with Vijeo

 

[JesperMP]

What ?

150-200 digital input/output total and around 40 analog input 4-20ma, 5 analog output 4-20ma and like 25 RTD input [...] but for that much analog input and RTD to deal with, DCS would do a better job.

This nothing for a PLC !

You may want to use a DCS instead of a PLC if you want such features as redundant systems (HMI, Controls, Networks, IO), Configurtion in Run (CiR) and Removal or Insertion under Production (RIUP).
Hi-end PLCs can do these things already to a degree.

Also cost is important for this projet,

A geniune DCS is an order of magnitude more expensive than a 'regular' PLC and HMI solution.

 

[boneless]

I think you would have to put some calculations and expectations on paper.

What are the distances between the I/O?
How much operator access do you need?
Do you need any logging of values?
Etcetera

I would probably go for a PLC with multiple RIO by bus to save on cable and to keep it simple.

If you figure out later that you need more control/logging, you could install a SCADA system on top.

 

[Martindag]

I'd say either AB ControlLogix or Schneider's Modicon. I personally prefer Schneider mostly because of price and you can create some slick HMI's with Vijeo

I agree with you on that vijeo is great and their HMI is prety cheap compare to AB i really like it. So far i only troublshooted Modicon but it seem to be a great PLC too.

 

[Martindag]

I think you would have to put some calculations and expectations on paper.

What are the distances between the I/O?
How much operator access do you need?
Do you need any logging of values?
Etcetera

I would probably go for a PLC with multiple RIO by bus to save on cable and to keep it simple.

If you figure out later that you need more control/logging, you could install a SCADA system on top.

What are the distances between the I/O?
the control would be in the middle of all the application, the fartest IO could be 100 feets away.

How much operator access do you need?
1 Main HMI to control everything, 1 access for maintenance purpose with my laptop i could monitor and modify stuff from there and like 3 PC for monitoring purpose only

Do you need any logging of values?
Yeah we would need to data log all the temperature and water counter atleast of all application in CSV format if possible like we do with AB here if possible

 

[Tom Jenkins]

For a system like that I would use multiple PLCs on a communication network. That simplifies wiring, avoids a single point of failure, and is easy to implement.

 

[JesperMP]

He hasn't informed anything that could help decide between PLC vs DCS, or centralised vs distributed.

 

[osmanmom]

40 analog input

OP also not mention about the communication

FO/PROFINET/PROFIBUS

 

[Martindag]

OP also not mention about the communication

FO/PROFINET/PROFIBUS

for the topic title sry i couldnt change it again,

Actualy i dont need that much analog input maybe 5-10 for 4-20ma signal
possibly 5-10 for the output

but i need something like 20-25 RTD input



Also we got 2 other aplication using already SL500, just this this reason should i take this under consideration to maybe go again with AB?


Also a very important point, if the system fail or whatever we would need like a backup or something, if one of the module is broken we can deal with it for the CPU we need like a backup, when we make batch when its started its very important that we never stop, if its happen once or twice a year that we scrap one i mean its ok... to change a motor, a drive etc... but all the batch at once ... we cant

 

[Martindag]

He hasn't informed anything that could help decide between PLC vs DCS, or centralised vs distributed.

If we go with multiple PLC, can the HMI control all of them at once in the same program ?