Current (2020) Cheapest AB learning systems

[Ozpeter]

I want to fill a hole in my skillset by picking up AB PLC programming. Although I'm at a very advanced level with GE PLCs (I mean GE-IP, no I really mean Emerson) I have only touched AB PLCs twice or three times in my professional life, so it is more mapping my current skillset to the way AB does things.

From what I can tell in the last few years AB has apparently changed the way it does things and I'm confused as to what would be the most appropriate path to take. Most tutorials I have seen on the interwebs have recommended downloading a free version of RSLogix that is no longer readily accessible (and if you can find it, seems to require windows 7 - but I never got it to actually install).

I have also now seen the (newish) Connected Components Workbench (CCW) product from AB, but I have no idea how it plays within the greater AB ecosystem.

Which brings me to my questions:

1. What would be the cheapest method to pick up AB programming that would also be the most generally beneficial in a professional environment? (and is easily available in 2020, and runs on W10)
2. Is there a PLC simulator that would go with this solution? Or would picking up a shoebox system from eBay be preferable? (and with or without ENet?)

 

[mylespetro]

I wouldn't exactly say that AB has "changed" the way they've done things, but they have put a little more emphasis on CCW, which is a free program that can be used to program VFDs as well as do the ladder logic programming for their newer line of small micro PLCs (Micro 800 series I believe). Their full-featured PLC software is Studio 5000, which actually consists of Logix Designer (PLC programming) as well as View Designer (PanelView 5310/5510 HMIs), is quite expensive for a license. The older generation of software is RSLogix 500 (MicroLogix and SLC PLCs) and RSLogix 5 (PLC-5). I believe the free version of RSLogix you're referring to is RSLogix Micro Starter Lite which is just RSLogix 500 with some convenient features and processors removed, I believe the only processors able to be programmed by this version are the MicroLogix 1000 and 1100.


As far as hardware to learn on, it really depends on your budget. I know geniusintraining on this forum owns/runs http://www.plccable.com which has a pretty wide selection of PLC trainer kits (in addition to a wide selection of other automation equipment and supplies). If that's too expensive for you, it might be best to buy an old MicroLogix off of eBay or another second hand reseller and wire it up yourself.


For a Coles notes version:


ControlLogix & CompactLogix (V21 and above) -> Studio 5000 (Logix Designer)
ControlLogix & CompactLogix (V20 and below) -> RSLogix 5000
MicroLogix (all, including 1100/1000) & SLC -> RSLogix 500
MicroLogix 1100/1000 -> RSLogix Micro Starter Lite
Micro800 series -> Connected Components Workbench
PLC-5 -> RSLogix 5


EDIT: Just wanted to add that I use almost all of these on W10 with almost no issue. A couple years back it seemed like every Windows update would cause Studio not to work, but for the past year I've had no issues. As far as the older software, it all works well on my computer, the only issue I've had has been with my license for RSLogix 500. We still had our licenses on floppy disks and my activation disappeared from my machine. I was told that a call to Rockwell Support would be able to get it changed over to FactoryTalk-based activation that plays nice with W10.

 

[Ozpeter]

I wouldn't exactly say that AB has "changed" the way they've done things, but they have put a little more emphasis on CCW, which is a free program that can be used to program VFDs as well as do the ladder logic programming for their newer line of small micro PLCs (Micro 800 series I believe). Their full-featured PLC software is Studio 5000, which actually consists of Logix Designer (PLC programming) as well as View Designer (PanelView 5310/5510 HMIs), is quite expensive for a license. The older generation of software is RSLogix 500 (MicroLogix and SLC PLCs) and RSLogix 5 (PLC-5). I believe the free version of RSLogix you're referring to is RSLogix Micro Starter Lite which is just RSLogix 500 with some convenient features and processors removed, I believe the only processors able to be programmed by this version are the MicroLogix 1000 and 1100.


As far as hardware to learn on, it really depends on your budget. I know geniusintraining on this forum owns/runs http://www.plccable.com which has a pretty wide selection of PLC trainer kits (in addition to a wide selection of other automation equipment and supplies). If that's too expensive for you, it might be best to buy an old MicroLogix off of eBay or another second hand reseller and wire it up yourself.


For a Coles notes version:


ControlLogix & CompactLogix (V21 and above) -> Studio 5000 (Logix Designer)
ControlLogix & CompactLogix (V20 and below) -> RSLogix 5000
MicroLogix (all, including 1100/1000) & SLC -> RSLogix 500
MicroLogix 1100/1000 -> RSLogix Micro Starter Lite
Micro800 series -> Connected Components Workbench
PLC-5 -> RSLogix 5


EDIT: Just wanted to add that I use almost all of these on W10 with almost no issue. A couple years back it seemed like every Windows update would cause Studio not to work, but for the past year I've had no issues. As far as the older software, it all works well on my computer, the only issue I've had has been with my license for RSLogix 500. We still had our licenses on floppy disks and my activation disappeared from my machine. I was told that a call to Rockwell Support would be able to get it changed over to FactoryTalk-based activation that plays nice with W10.

I think "By changed" I meant that the RSLogix Micro Starter Lite seems really difficult to find online in 2020, and seems as if it's been made intentionally hard to do so. It was also what I think that I tracked down that also seemed to require W7 (and even then I couldn't get it to install). But as I have zero experience with AB, I don't know what should work and what will fall in a heap.

I have no problem with wiring up something like a 1100, but if I can't source a reliable free version of RSLogix then there is no point going down that route. And so far I haven't been able to find a download from AB that worked for me (which could be AB or it could be me - but I'd hope that things worked easily on a fresh W7 VM).

Which leaves me with CCW, for which I don't know if gaining experience in a Micro800 system maps into the larger AB systems or if they are a totally different product line. I also just looked on eBay and ether are micro800 systems there - although I have no idea if they are cheaper than than an AB sales channel.

 

[Steve Bailey]

Speaking as a person with a lot of experience with the products coming out of the Charlottesville facility, regardless of the name. I've never had much difficulty with transitioning between GE and AB.
The majority of my business was with GE products, but you can't run a business in the US automation space without exposure to AB. I used my customer's license when working on an AB project and was usually able to get up to speed in fairly short order. The two biggest roadblocks were (1) trying to make AB behave like GE and (2) trying to figure out AB's terminology for the things I was accustomed to doing in GE so I could use the Help files to find out how to use the available tools.

 

[drbitboy]

If that's too expensive for you, it might be best to buy an old MicroLogix off of eBay or another second hand reseller and wire it up yourself.

Both my brother an I have gone this route, and unless you choose not to value your time at a reasonable rate, then the savings over buying a turn-key trainer is illusory at best. For me it's a hobby, so I can make that choice with a straight face.


The OP specifically asked about AB PLC programming, and as mentioned there are freebie A-B PLC (RSLogix Micro Starter Lite; CCW) software and even emulators (RSEmulate500, and something that works with CCW, I think).


But I would argue that programming is programming and if you have dealt with GE PLCs, then there is nothing to learn there beyond alternate TLAs* for the instructions, and the different look and feel of the IDE. I have not fiddled with CCW yet, but certainly RSLogix500/Lite are quite different from RSL/Studio5000, so the freebies may not help there.



My personal impression, and I think this is supported by the frequency of various topics in this forum, is that most people can program, but the real skill and money shot for A-B are in the ControlLogix and CompactLogix architecture, knowing how to configure the different cards in a chassis, address them, talk to VFDs, know when there is a firmware/software version problem, etc. That hardware does not come cheap, even on eBay, and that knowledge is, I suspect, obtained either in paid training or in the school of hard knocks/experience.



* Three-Letter Abbreviations

 

[drbitboy]

I think "By changed" I meant that the RSLogix Micro Starter Lite seems really difficult to find online in 2020, and seems as if it's been made intentionally hard to do so. It was also what I think that I tracked down that also seemed to require W7 (and even then I couldn't get it to install). But as I have zero experience with AB, I don't know what should work and what will fall in a heap.

Agreed that A-B does seem to kind of hide it. There is a youtube explaining the whole Lite download and installation process; I assume you found that?


I am running Lite on a W10 guest VM under VirtualBox on a Linux machine, where it has started to cause crashes recently, plus on a W10 desktop, where I have had no problems whatsoever.

 

[Ozpeter]

Speaking as a person with a lot of experience with the products coming out of the Charlottesville facility, regardless of the name. I've never had much difficulty with transitioning between GE and AB.
The majority of my business was with GE products, but you can't run a business in the US automation space without exposure to AB. I used my customer's license when working on an AB project and was usually able to get up to speed in fairly short order. The two biggest roadblocks were (1) trying to make AB behave like GE and (2) trying to figure out AB's terminology for the things I was accustomed to doing in GE so I could use the Help files to find out how to use the available tools.

Well if you spend your career doing GE Metals work, and then transition to TMEIC it's really easy to avoid AB

I agree that given a system I could pick it up fast, but I don't have a client to give me a system and I'd like to get ahead of the game so that I can say "yes" when an opportunity presents itself.

 

[Ozpeter]

Agreed that A-B does seem to kind of hide it. There is a youtube explaining the whole Lite download and installation process; I assume you found that?


I am running Lite on a W10 guest VM under VirtualBox on a Linux machine, where it has started to cause crashes recently, plus on a W10 desktop, where I have had no problems whatsoever.

I haven't seen that particular video, but for others that came out in the last 2 or so years the instructions for locating Lite have failed to work because AB relocated stuff. I'll give that one a go later and see if it is still relevant.

 

[Ozpeter]

Both my brother an I have gone this route, and unless you choose not to value your time at a reasonable rate, then the savings over buying a turn-key trainer is illusory at best. For me it's a hobby, so I can make that choice with a straight face.

Due to covid I have plenty of downtime, so anything I can do myself is pure savings. If I was fully engaged with work, then it would be a no brainer to buy a system.

The OP specifically asked about AB PLC programming, and as mentioned there are freebie A-B PLC (RSLogix Micro Starter Lite; CCW) software and even emulators (RSEmulate500, and something that works with CCW, I think).


But I would argue that programming is programming and if you have dealt with GE PLCs, then there is nothing to learn there beyond alternate TLAs* for the instructions, and the different look and feel of the IDE. I have not fiddled with CCW yet, but certainly RSLogix500/Lite are quite different from RSL/Studio5000, so the freebies may not help there.

It's those TLAs and how to apply them that I want to learn. Sure I could read some documentation, but I know my learning style is by doing rather than reading. Also as to the look and feel. I have the look and feel of Machine Edition drilled into my head, but when I see screen shots of RSLogix programming I go "eewwww .. that looks horrible". This is something I can only get over by actually using the packages :-;

My personal impression, and I think this is supported by the frequency of various topics in this forum, is that most people can program, but the real skill and money shot for A-B are in the ControlLogix and CompactLogix architecture, knowing how to configure the different cards in a chassis, address them, talk to VFDs, know when there is a firmware/software version problem, etc. That hardware does not come cheap, even on eBay, and that knowledge is, I suspect, obtained either in paid training or in the school of hard knocks/experience.



* Three-Letter Abbreviations

I agree that knowing the overall AB offerings would be a pinnacle of professionalism, but I still have't even gotten off the ground floor.

 

[drbitboy]

Due to covid I have plenty of downtime, so anything I can do myself is pure savings. If I was fully engaged with work, then it would be a no brainer to buy a system.

In that case I would, and have, definitely go the Lite/CCW route then, because the emulators are also free (though not perfect), so you are up and running for the investment of time.


and then look for factory pulls on ebay for the compact-/control-logix stuff. Even laptops with old versions of RSLogix5h/k seem to come up fairly frequently, although I have neither tried that yet nor considered the legality; it won't be the latest studio 5k but who knows?