Electric vehicle progress report

[leitmotif]

Have received lots of comments and support from you guys so I think a status report of converting pickup truck to electric drive is due.

1. Have money saved up to buy VFD and motor from Azure Dynamics.
2. Have learned more the -- idea of using a forklift drive and motor has gone down the tubes. A very qualified and competent forklift tech says most forklift drive are about 15 HP. So much for that idea.
3. Same forklift drive guy has big doubts I am getting large enough motor from Azure to satisfy my needs and or wants. Need to research my driving habits (needs and wants) to ensure I will be happy with acceleration and hill climb capability. I will definitely need enough acceleration to safely merge on freeway from short ramp. 5 speed Izuzu satisfies my needs and wants BUT it could use a little more power for accel.
4. Company I work for is moving in 1st quarter 2008 have no idea of the timeline (I am sure neither do they and I foresee business as usual and we will do at last minute knee jerk kind of scheduling). Lots of overtime I bet so will have no time to concentrate on truck.
5. Have found 47 Dodge or 60 Studebaker Champ pickups that may be acceptible. If I am going to do this project may as well have something that is different and kind of funky.
6. Dont have work area yet am considering buying house (GARAGE) to do this project.
7. Have accepted that I am stuck with 300 or 325 VDC battery voltage.

From here
1. Keep saving them bucks. I am sure I will go over budget just like all projects.
2. Wait for 90 days to see what company does.
3. Start house (GARAGE) hunting
4. Get better idea of what I want in vehicle performance.
5. Knuckle down and do all them calculations to ensure I am picking right motor size.
6. Start looking around for less expensive high voltage DC components ie contactor, fuse blocks, terminal blocks, disconnect switch etc etc.

Thank you all for your interest, support and (MOST IMPORTANT) devil advocate inputs.
Dan Bentler

 

[AndyT]

Drive

Just courious, have you decided what type of drive and motor are you looking for?

Andy

 

[leitmotif]

Andy

Yes I have both the VFD (DMOC 55) and motor (AC 55) 25 Kw are made by Azure who bought out Solectria and are continuing with the Solectria motor and controller.

Web page is here
http://www.azuredynamics.com/motors.htm

select AC 55 / DMOC445 to get gory details.

If you have any suggestions to other mfrs of VFD that is supplied direct from battery I am all ears. Would prefer battery voltage less than 250 ideally 125 or so but fear I am stuck with 300 to 325.

GM Ford and Toyota all have or are using 300 VDC supply to VFDs.
So it looks like that is the common trend and all I am going to get bucking it is a sore head.
Dan

 

[OkiePC]

Andy

Yes I have both the VFD (DMOC 55) and motor (AC 55) 25 Kw are made by Azure who bought out Solectria and are continuing with the Solectria motor and controller.

Web page is here
http://www.azuredynamics.com/motors.htm

select AC 55 / DMOC445 to get gory details.

If you have any suggestions to other mfrs of VFD that is supplied direct from battery I am all ears. Would prefer battery voltage less than 250 ideally 125 or so but fear I am stuck with 300 to 325.

GM Ford and Toyota all have or are using 300 VDC supply to VFDs.
So it looks like that is the common trend and all I am going to get bucking it is a sore head.
Dan

Hey Dan, I was googling for the old aircraft starter generator projects for info and stumbled across this which led me to this.

If I win the lottery, four of those are going on my 1978 CJ5. . .

Good luck, and thanks for the update.

 

[Lancie1]

Dan,

The problem I see for most electric vehicles is that they need either more power, or less weight.

With the available batteries (without getting into exotic expensive types), most tinkerers will probably be better off trying to reduce the vehicle weight. Other small gains can be made by increasing tire air pressure, reducing wind resistance, reducing wheel bearing drag, and improving the downhill regeneration.

 

[leitmotif]

Dan,

The problem I see for most electric vehicles is that they need either more power, or less weight.

With the available batteries (without getting into exotic expensive types), most tinkerers will probably be better off trying to reduce the vehicle weight. Other small gains can be made by increasing tire air pressure, reducing wind resistance, reducing wheel bearing drag, and improving the downhill regeneration.

Lancie I completely agree. The one thing you missed is going to lighter lubricants in gearboxes.
I hope to use a 3600 RPM motor (driveshaft does 3600 at 60) and direct couple to driveshaft. Eliminate clutch & transmission.
The trouble with more power is you automatically increase weight because of more battery - seems like an endless upward spiral to me. At the minimum it will be a go to work vehicle and will need only 25 mile range BUT I still have to have large enough battery (is ampacity correct term ??) that can carry the load without bus voltage going too low and tripping VFD.

There was a Boeing engineer circa '40's who said give me enough engine and I'll make a rock fly.

 

[ascot01]

glad to see you guys started this thread, very interesting. I've thought about building an electric 3-wheeler (2 in front) similar to the Can-Am Spyder but enclosed. Something enclosed, safe and sturdy but still classifies as a motorcycle to be legal to use the High Occupancy Vehicle lanes through Houston. A 1-passenger vehicle with 65 mph top speed.

 

[gosenbach]

5. Have found 47 Dodge or 60 Studebaker Champ pickups that may be acceptible. If I am going to do this project may as well have something that is different and kind of funky.

If I remember correctly, those vechicles may be a little on the heavy side? Wight is going to be your enemy. Have you thought about using something a little lighter?

 

[TimothyMoulder]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned an electric motorcycle? Why's it got to be a car or truck?

TM

 

[OkiePC]

I think Dan already has a donor, mini-truck, which would be much more practical in everyday use if it is feasible to build.

 

[Lancie1]

Those old pickup trucks had a heavy body, big steel support C-channels or I-beams, and thick sheet metal, heavy axles, and leaf springs.

A modern uni-body (mostly a sheet metal tube) would lower the weight considerably for an electric vehicle.

The early 1920's Model T Ford frame would probably be lighter than the 1947 Dodge truck.

 

[leitmotif]

To reply to all to date.

Tim Moulder
It won't be a motorcycle cause I dont want one. Know a couple guys who have em - one holds a dragstrip record. Can Put you in touch with him if you want.

Okie and Lancie. You are right the plan is for the conversion to be done in Izuzu pickup. Weight wise replacement parts wise and for all good reasons it is the better choice. Actually Chevy S 10 is most logical choice very popular EV conversion.

The 47 Dodge (or equivalent) again is cause I want to. I want to have something a little different, eye catching, call it self expression, odd ball or whatever but that is how it is. I will have to accept the weight gain and other drawbacks - just aint no free lunch!!!!!

Lancie - got any 20 Ford pickups laying around?? Now that would be neat. Look at Miller welding site at their 29 Ford.
http://www.millerwelds.com/dream/
It is actually a replica - they contracted with an outfit who got the original body work dies and are stamping out replicas. Costy about 25K.

Dan

 

[David_Emmerich]

Hi leitmotif....I know a gentleman that lives about 30 miles from me that has ALL the parts and the batteries mounted in a truck that he bought sight unseen from some gov research group...I think it was down at Oak Ridge in TN...he wants to get rid of "all that junk.." ...I'll give you his number if you want...

David

 

[Lancie1]

BUT I still have to have large enough battery (is ampacity correct term ??)

The ampacity rating generally decribes the instantaneous current rating of any device or circuit, but does not say for how long the current lasts.

"Ampere-Hours" is the usual method for battery rating (1 Amp-hour = 1 amp supplied for 1 hour).

This rating is based on the total number of amperes the battery can supply in a 20 hour period of even withdrawal. A battery rated at 100 ampere/hours can supply 5 amperes per hour for 20 hours. If more than 5 amperes per hour is taken from the battery, it will not even supply its 100 ampere/hour rating.

The 47 Dodge (or equivalent) again is cause I want to. I want to have something a little different, eye catching, call it self expression, odd ball or whatever but that is how it is. I will have to accept the weight gain and other drawbacks - just aint no free lunch!!!!!

Funky, different, and eye-catching are polar opposites to "electric vehicle". I have yet to see one I would classify as funky. Usually they are stripped-down, bare-bones, light-weight, and no frills.

The closest to "free lunch" that I know of would be the wood-fired full-size pickup that the old Mother Earth News magazine built and drove up to Washington DC, back during the last energy crisis in the 1980's. It had a wood-burning gasifier in the back that created the gas that the truck ran on. It seemed to have plenty of power and enough room left to haul the firewood that powered the thing. Hey, I looked it up and the article is still around.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading-and-Self-Reliance/1981-05-01/Mothers-Woodburning-Truck.aspx

 

[leitmotif]

Lancie

Yeah I thought about using amp hours but the term I am looking for would be described as volts drop per amp. Ampacity seemed close but as you say not correct.

The recent)?) production from Ford (pickup) and Chevy EV 1 had the frills AC power steering (I think ??) and all that. I am not even sure funky accurately describes what I want. One more instance where I cannot tell you what I want but I know it when I see it.

Free lunch wood burning truck?? Back when I lived on land and had a fireplace I never found cutting, splitting and stacking wood a free lunch. Now my ex wife sure had a free lunch with the fireplace fire.
Truly endothermic -- all she did was soak up the heat.

Dan