Going for Engineering Degree

[geniusintraining]

There were 2 of us, but I had to kill the other guy.

He's still alive I saw him last week

I'd do Chemical Engineering with focus on computer process control if I could do it again.

Most of the smartest engineers I know are chemical, I think it has a lot to do with the math background, same with Peter he is one of the top brains on this site and I think it also has to do with the mathematical background and the way you look at things once you grasp the numbers, regardless of the field it all comes down to numbers at some point

 

[gas]

In the 60’s I got an A+ in party and flunked out of several colleges. I became a toolmaker, then a maintenance guy. I then had a tool shop that designed and built special machinery. My first exposure to computer controls was a 3 axis compumotor system with a Tandy computer. 8000 bucks COD and a month to get it working. I continued to take classes and acquired enough credits for an ME but never pursued it. I have several patents, had engineers working for me so it wasn’t important at the time.
I now work part time and teach part time. A degree is required to develop syllabi and I have heard some incredibly stupid things from degreed people. There is a huge disconnect between academia and the real world. That said, In todays climate you will need a degree just to get in the door. If you are working for someone who values and recognizes results then take as many mechatronics courses as you can and spend as much time as you can with the shop guys. Bubba stories aside some of those guys are brilliant and they are a wealth of information.
Good luck

 

[mk42]

Most of the smartest engineers I know are chemical, I think it has a lot to do with the math background, same with Peter he is one of the top brains on this site and I think it also has to do with the mathematical background and the way you look at things once you grasp the numbers, regardless of the field it all comes down to numbers at some point

MAD props to the guys like Peter N, who use the math day in and day out to make things work the way they SHOULD, instead of just applying patches and guessing. The down side is that, at least the way I see it, the industry hires way more of the "just get it running" type than the "expert who can make the $100k chalk mark" type. I've seen plenty of engineering teams where guys with degrees from top schools (MIT, Michigan, Purdue, Georgia Tech) are working side by side with guys with associates degrees, and with equivalent status. For every guy inventing best practices and setting standards, there are 10 guys who just implement the standard without understanding why the rules are what they are.

What degree should you go for? If you want to be the guy who sets the standards, go for the hardest one you think you can get through (and afford). The more math, the better. Honestly, the less practical the better. If every class sounds like something that will immediately help you in your current job, they probably won't help you two or three jobs down the road. If you learn skills that you can't use now, the hope is that you end up in the job where you can.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: a degree is what you make it. You can use it as a launching point to a career you hadn't thought possible before. You can use it to prove to yourself that you can. But the degree isn't a golden ticket: just checking the box on the resume won't do you any favors.

 

[SoftwareJanitor]

I have also secured the financing to the move, and though I'm working a job I despise at the moment, it feels good knowing I don't *have* to keep working for the next month, I'm just doing it because of debt.

Can I ask how old you are? When you said you didn't "need" the degree, I thought you were on the older side, but now this statement makes me think you're younger - which I hope is the case.

The reason I ask is - it really is a waste of time and money to get a college degree that you cannot use to enhance your standard of living. Sad to say, but a college degree is really more about leverage in the workplace than it is about knowledge. College is not a trade school. It's a place where you pay large sums of money (for 4 or more years) supporting the "Big Research Machine" while you mature and learn a lot of theoretical, impractical stuff. But you *do* get a piece of paper that, in theory, should help you make a lot more money over the course of your 'career' than if you didn't have it.

Personally, I think if you don't have your college degree in hand by say, 45 years old (worst case), forget it. And if you're older than that, please don't put yourself through all that pain and suffering thinking you're going to be enlightened by the college experience, because you're not. And you're not going to gain anything from it except to say that you got the degree. The smarter thing to do (at that age) is to learn in a more 'targeted' fashion: take "State of the Art" classes for example, or enroll in Certification programs (such as Microsoft or Cisco). Demonstrable skills are always marketable. A college degree late in life with no history behind it is worthless, in my opinion.

Good luck! If you're on the younger side, go for it and make it pay off for you! But get the Computer Science degree. Skip all the theory and brutalized math that you'll never use the rest of your life. You just want the degree. After that, you've got years and years to hone your craft ... whatever it ends up being. Your success or failure will depend a LOT more on your God-given intelligence than on your college degree (despite what the "Education Snobs" will tell you). The college degree is just the "foot in the door", nothing more...

 

[sparkie]

Thanks for the replies guys, you aren't making this any easier. You are totally right about most colleges not getting too much into automation engineering, but I have always seen process controllers, field devices, HMI's, etc as just tools for doing a job. I was called in to a plant today to do some automation troubleshooting and modify some conveyor systems. It was nice, as I have not had a lot of that work lately. Made me remember why I want to do it and all that more motivated to get that engineering degree . Stupid piece of paper

As far as my age and background, I'm 30 (just at the tipping point if I want to get the degree) and I have been in the electrical/automation field for four years. Lots of work as an electrician and even more as an automation guy. Two years of networking (CCNA) and a deep understanding of computer systems. The reason I want to go after this degree is to learn the higher level math/science stuff and get a deeper understanding of the "theoretical" electrical stuff. Mechatronics just touches on a LOT of stuff so that when you get into the field you aren't completely lost and can be taught the practical approach to solving problems, and at this point I don't feel a bachelors degree would be value-added to my skill-set. I want to design/build automation controls and that engineering degree is going to give me the deep background in theoretical that I can use to better apply to practical problems. Of course it is very easy to get lost in theory, but that is beside the point.

I should also mention I'll be working in the industrial maintenance field the entire time I'm pursuing the degree anyway, so I won't be missing out while I working on the degree.

 

[SoftwareJanitor]

Oh my gosh ... you're a young guy. By all means, get the degree. But get it ASAP because you're about to move into your prime earning years (and you're already 8 years behind on the "engineering" experience ledger).

But don't break the bank, either. It's not worth it. A recognizable State University is sufficient. Maybe you can even cut some cost by starting at a Community College with a defined transfer program to the State University?

Go get em, Sparkie !!

 

[mk42]

As far as my age and background, I'm 30 (just at the tipping point if I want to get the degree) and I have been in the electrical/automation field for four years. Lots of work as an electrician and even more as an automation guy. Two years of networking (CCNA) and a deep understanding of computer systems. The reason I want to go after this degree is to learn the higher level math/science stuff and get a deeper understanding of the "theoretical" electrical stuff. Mechatronics just touches on a LOT of stuff so that when you get into the field you aren't completely lost and can be taught the practical approach to solving problems, and at this point I don't feel a bachelors degree would be value-added to my skill-set. I want to design/build automation controls and that engineering degree is going to give me the deep background in theoretical that I can use to better apply to practical problems. Of course it is very easy to get lost in theory, but that is beside the point.

Since this whole thread started as a "what major is right for me" question, wanted to try to directly address that.

What theoretical electrical stuff do you want to learn? Most engineering majors will make you take EE101, to do basic RLC (resistor/inductor/capacitor) circuits (and the math behind them). If you get too deep into the EE curriculum, you'll start taking courses more likely to help you build a PLC than to use one. That COULD be really cool or helpful, depending on what interests you.

A CS degree could be useful if you want to specialize as a programmer, or if you want to get into PC based/SCADA work.

Personally, I think you'd do well to get a degree in whatever you want to control. The problems you're going to need to solve that will really make you valuable are more likely to be when your boss/customer says "hey, sparkie, how do I fix my process?". Most processes are either mechanical or chemical in nature, so a degree in one of those could help you really dig deep in what the automation actually DOES vs just knowing that output 3 comes on 2 sec after input 2.

What it boils down to is that most universities have a certain amount of flexibility in their degrees. There is a Plan of Study that usually says you have to take XXX number of credits, lists general electives you'll need to take (math/english/science/etc), lists required major courses, ect. However, there is usually a "technical elective" requirement, where they say you need to take a certain number of credits worth of courses from any engineering (or related) major. At the time (normal college age), I had no clue what I wanted to do, and I mostly squandered that opportunity. If you KNOW where you want to be, those tech electives could be a huge help.

Most universities have counselors you can sit down with, to talk about what you want to do. Take that opportunity. Hopefully it can be an engineering counselor, instead of just a general incoming freshman (we do anything) counselor. Have a chat about who you are, what you want to learn, and where you want to end up. They might know some magic words to translate your desires into their lingo: "oh, you want to specialize in Digital Electronics? We call that XYZ!"

 

[robertmee]

I'm an EE so I'm biased towards getting an EE degree. However, in my field of industrial process automation and web control, I use alot of physics and thermo (heat control). So, if you want to stay in engineering, get a mechanical degree, with CSC classes as your electives. I will say some of the best (besides me ) controls engineers I've run across in 25+ years have mechanical degrees.

 

[Toine]

If at all possible, choose a school where teachers are passionate about their subject. Where teachers (or at least a significant nr of them) have not gone from being a student straight to working at uni and then teaching. I have learned the most valuable things from those teachers who worked as an engineer for years before moving into teaching. Teaching from experience is a great thing (as opposed to the well known saying "those who can do - those who can't teach").

BTW: you are young. I started engineering school at 46. If you like it: go for it, full throttle

 

[Steve Bailey]

My degree is also in Mechanical Engineering. My favorite over four years was a course called "General Manufacturing Practices". It was a 3-credit lab course that could have been called "Machine Shop for Engineers". All labs were hands-on. The first lab was in the foundry. We cast a blank. Over the course of the next couple of labs we took our blanks to the shop and finished them on the lathe and milling machine. There were also welding labs. The shop was the school's maintenance facility. If your school offers a course like that, you can be sure it takes Toine's concern to heart.

 

[proof]

Since this whole thread started as a "what major is right for me" question, wanted to try to directly address that.

There are a couple of goals to consider, what major will give you the best training for what you want to do, and what major will help you get the job you want to do. When I look at the job boards, EE's are asked for the most, then Chemical E's, then engineers with no major specified. I have never seen them list coursework that specify areas of knowledge (courses) that they want someone to know, just the degree.

Personally, I think you'd do well to get a degree in whatever you want to control.

EE seems to be the most desirable to HR for hiring purposes, but a different degree would probably allow you to take courses that would give you a more rounded background into process controls/Automation. Here's a list of what I think would be helpful.

*) General engineering courses - Calculus, physics, chemistry etc.
*) Computer Engineering - Class about Boolean logic, flip flops, adders, etc.
*) Programming language classes
Basic language - C, python, Perl, etc.
Lisp - requires a different way of thinking than the 'normal' languages.
*) Unix operating systems and its tools.
Bash, grep, sed, awk, etc.
*) Networks (TCP/IP, etc)
*) Embedded Systems
*) Electricity (if not in EE, take the course for the EE)
*) Practical electronics/instrumentation course (often an ME, GE, or Ag E course)
*) Thermodynamics
*) Fluids
*) Drafting
*) Theoretical and Applied Mechanics. (Statics & Dynamics)
*) Food rheology.
*) Signal analysis.
*) Classical Control Theory (often different but useful versions are offered by EE, ME, GE, and Chem E)
*) Modern Control theory.
*) Distillation
*) Motor theory.

 

[rupej]

I would go for an EET degree. Heavy focus on hands-on practical stuff. Usually get electrical, board level computer, programming, networking and automation with way less math than a traditional engineering degree. Pays the same typically, and you can still take the FE/PE exams.