Good Paperless Recorder for Flow, Ph, Conductivity?

[seekon]

Hi All,

We are looking for a new paperless recorder, our current ABB SM1000 is on its way out, the screen is difficult to see. There is a long leadtime for ABB RVG 200 which is its replacement.

Anyone know of a good paperless recorder that can be used to record the following analogue values?

1. Flow Rate (Transmitter measures rate of water in partial flume)
2. PH (Probe)
3. Conductivity (probe)

Bonus would be for us to be able to use our Aveva Wonderware System Platform Historian to collect this data in realtime via ethernet if possible.

 

[goghie]

Jumo Logoscreen.

 

[OkiePC]

One of my customers likes his Yokogawa. I have no first hand experience with them though.

https://www.yokogawa.com/us/solutio...tion-products/panel-mount-recorders/#Overview

 

[nehpets]

Take a look at the Eurotherm NANODAC its a lot of bang for your buck.

 

[JesperMP]

Bonus would be for us to be able to use our Aveva Wonderware System Platform Historian to collect this data in realtime via ethernet if possible.

If you have a SCADA with historian functionality, why go over a 'paperless recorder' first ?
A historian is a paperless recorder.
I am guessing this is an old plant that used to have paperroll recorders, and at some time the paperroll recorder was changed to a paperless recorder. And also a SCADA was added for a multitude of good reasons.
But noone ever came up with 'maybe we should let the SCADA do it all' ?

So I would investigate how to get the signals into the SCADA without the recorder.

 

[goghie]

@JesperMP
I thought to propose HMI with CFR 21 Part 11 compliance, but then I thought that they need to develop application in that case, and that is additional time/money. Paperless recorders are usually in standard dimensions and panel mounted.

 

[JesperMP]

I thought to propose HMI with CFR 21 Part 11 compliance, but then I thought that they need to develop application in that case, and that is additional time/money.

He wants to get the data into his historian anyway:

Bonus would be for us to be able to use our Aveva Wonderware System Platform Historian to collect this data in realtime via ethernet if possible.

So it is the paperless recorder which is the unnecessary expense.

 

[Chris_M]

One of my customers likes his Yokogawa. I have no first hand experience with them though.

https://www.yokogawa.com/us/solutio...tion-products/panel-mount-recorders/#Overview

We us a couple of the Yokagawa DX1000's they work pretty well,
we use them as local readout, so no information about integration but IIRC they use there own software.

 

[joseph_e2]

At my previous location, we had a bunch of Eurotherm paperless chart recorders. They were a bit of a pain to deal with but they did work. They had remote access if the network was correct, but you had to manually transfer the data from the units as a CSV file.


When we did one of our line upgrades, the chart recorder was bad, so we went another direction. the company doing part of the upgrade got a license for a software package that ran on a compact industrial PC sitting next to the line. It connected to the PLC and read the signals via Ethernet/IP and logged them automatically in a database. I'm pretty sure, from memory, it was ibaPDA:
https://www.iba-ag.com/en/ibapda
I was focused on the PLC upgrade (from a PLC-5 with 7 racks to a ControlLogix with 5 racks, integrating 3 drive systems and 3 HMIs at the same time), so the data collection part was handled by a manufacturing engineer. I remember it not being too difficult to set up and only once in a few years did I have to fix a connection issue. Otherwise, it just worked.

 

[seekon]

If you have a SCADA with historian functionality, why go over a 'paperless recorder' first ?
A historian is a paperless recorder.
I am guessing this is an old plant that used to have paperroll recorders, and at some time the paperroll recorder was changed to a paperless recorder. And also a SCADA was added for a multitude of good reasons.
But noone ever came up with 'maybe we should let the SCADA do it all' ?

So I would investigate how to get the signals into the SCADA without the recorder.

Thanks for the input, I have asked our techs to look at this option, 1 of tech suggested that we just install a Siemens Logo PLC and connect the analogue inputs into the PLC, then connect the Logo to Historian.

We will test this process to see if this method works in our historian.

We would still like to purchase a paperless recorder as a backup to ensure that the data is being recorded in the event that our historian has any issues.

 

[seekon]

Thank you all for your prompt input, will follow up accordingly

 

[goghie]

Just to add that if it has something with food production and monitoring of critical parameters with anything regarding with health, monitoring records need to be CFR 21 Part 11 compliant. There are SCADA/Historian solutions that are complaint.

 

[danw]

The app sounds like EPA compliance to me.

An advantage of a local recorder AND SCADA data acquisition is backed up data. A local processing firm ran into big fine when their 'real-time' SCADA didn't log data for a couple days until the problem was discovered. An issue with EPA data is it doesn't add value to the process; it's just compliance to checking the integrity of the data tends to be low priority.

Several clients use a recorder with flash memory storage along with SCADA.

 

[seekon]

The app sounds like EPA compliance to me.

An advantage of a local recorder AND SCADA data acquisition is backed up data. A local processing firm ran into big fine when their 'real-time' SCADA didn't log data for a couple days until the problem was discovered. An issue with EPA data is it doesn't add value to the process; it's just compliance to checking the integrity of the data tends to be low priority.

Several clients use a recorder with flash memory storage along with SCADA.

Yes, this is part of our effluent system, so it is important that we have accurate data. Having 2 data collections points provides the redundancy to ensure we have this important data.