InTouch 10.1 tag current values search

[robertmee]

Has your IT department attempted to find any old, archived copies of the PLC program? That's probably your best hope for finding your lost PID numbers.

This.. 99.5% certain, there isn't a WW repository storing and loading values to the PLC.

 

[NetNathan]

Lots of incorrect assumptions here. The offline PLC file you keep referencing has no bearing on the resident values of the tags in the current PLC. Offline data values are defaults, but the PLC is storing the current running values. When you initially start Wonderare, the IO server queries the PLC memory and populates the tag values in the HMI...not the other way around. In otherwords, the initial values are resident and battery backed in the PLC memory.

There is the off chance that WW is storing data in a repository such as a csv file or dB...if so, check the application script in ww...it would load those values on start of the application. But that would be highly unusual. As for retentive data, that's almost exclusively used for memory tags, not IO tags. IO tags almost always initialize from the current value in the PLC. Those PID parameters you are after would be stored in PLC memory, not WW memory. If the tags were not defined as historical logged, then there is no history.

Lastly, the igx lgh files are not necessarily stored in the application directory. WW gives you the option to specify the directory to store history. In window maker, check the history settings...either the checkbox to store in application will be set, or a directory will be defined.

Please let me know if I said anything that may have been wrong.

 

[robertmee]

Please let me know if I said anything that may have been wrong.

Not so much anything you said...more the OP. However you mentioned retentive being loaded. If the tags are I/O and set to retentive it doesn't really have any effect. Retentive values are stored as last value when viewer is shut down, then loaded as initial values only.
But as soon as the IO server comms are established they are updated with the PLC values. Retentive values are never written to the PLC. So retebtive on IO tags is fairly useless. Also, important to clarify that the log files you had him search for could be anywhere, even on a networked or remote drive. He needs to open windowmaker to see where they are being logged. So more or less filling in the details.

 

[NetNathan]

Not so much anything you said...more the OP. However you mentioned retentive being loaded. If the tags are I/O and set to retentive it doesn't really have any effect. Retentive values are stored as last value when viewer is shut down, then loaded as initial values only.
But as soon as the IO server comms are established they are updated with the PLC values. Retentive values are never written to the PLC. So retentive on IO tags is fairly useless. Also, important to clarify that the log files you had him search for could be anywhere, even on a networked or remote drive. He needs to open windowmaker to see where they are being logged. So more or less filling in the details.

Yes.... the search for the log files was hopefully to find out if anything was local.. It took a few posts before he mentioned the "Historian was somewhere else", then I also figured he was probably not using Intouch History logging.
However in one my system setups they use Intouch logging for local storage and there is a Historian Server over all (about 45 furnaces running Intouch).

 

[iLikeWaffles]

Offline data values are defaults, but the PLC is storing the current running values. When you initially start Wonderare, the IO server queries the PLC memory and populates the tag values in the HMI...not the other way around. In otherwords, the initial values are resident and battery backed in the PLC memory.

This proved to be correct. When I pulled power to the PLC and rebooted the HMI, all tags came up as zero.

We have many backups of the PLC program, but none of them save the "D" register values, which is where the PID parameters are (D4038 to be exact).

It looks like with Omron, you have to go to the memory window and turn on monitor and then click save in order to get all the current values. This creates a .mem file.

Funny thing is that we have a .mem file from long ago that does not include the D (data) registers. Somebody had to uncheck the D registers when doing the save because by default all the registers are checked ON to be saved.

Looks like we will be tuning the PID.

 

[DaveW]

It looks like with Omron, you have to go to the memory window and turn on monitor and then click save in order to get all the current values. This creates a .mem file.

Yes I remember something to this effect. Sorry to hear if somebody didn't save them.

 

[DaveW]

Lots of incorrect assumptions here. The offline PLC file you keep referencing has no bearing on the resident values of the tags in the current PLC. Offline data values are defaults, but the PLC is storing the current running values. When you initially start Wonderare, the IO server queries the PLC memory and populates the tag values in the HMI...not the other way around. In otherwords, the initial values are resident and battery backed in the PLC memory.

There is the off chance that WW is storing data in a repository such as a csv file or dB...if so, check the application script in ww...it would load those values on start of the application. But that would be highly unusual. As for retentive data, that's almost exclusively used for memory tags, not IO tags. IO tags almost always initialize from the current value in the PLC. Those PID parameters you are after would be stored in PLC memory, not WW memory. If the tags were not defined as historical logged, then there is no history.

Lastly, the igx lgh files are not necessarily stored in the application directory. WW gives you the option to specify the directory to store history. In window maker, check the history settings...either the checkbox to store in application will be set, or a directory will be defined.

This is correct but let's say someone made a copy of the Intouch program with retentive tags and they held the last good PLC values. If you start that Intouch program without the PLC connected, what do you get for those tags? Yes! the last stored PLC values.

 

[robertmee]

This is correct but let's say someone made a copy of the Intouch program with retentive tags and they held the last good PLC values. If you start that Intouch program without the PLC connected, what do you get for those tags? Yes! the last stored PLC values.

Good point...key is to open viewer with no IO server to the PLC connection.

 

[Bit_Bucket_07]

Good point...key is to open viewer with no IO server to the PLC connection.

I thought about that as well. It seems feasible, but I don't know if it would work. I can't recall ever having tried it.

 

[NetNathan]

Good point...key is to open viewer with no IO server to the PLC connection.

Problem is that they are not saved as retentive.. I believe thew OP said that.
However.. there is a Historian running. I wonder if he checked the Historian? In the newer Historian, you can grab tags from Intouch without having to setup anything in Intouch (no binding), I do not know if the older version they have supported that.

 

[robertmee]

Problem is that they are not saved as retentive.. I believe thew OP said that.
However.. there is a Historian running. I wonder if he checked the Historian? In the newer Historian, you can grab tags from Intouch without having to setup anything in Intouch (no binding), I do not know if the older version they have supported that.

In regards to retentive, we were discussing feasibility and functionality at this point, not the OPs predicament.

 

[DaveW]

In regards to retentive, we were discussing feasibility and functionality at this point, not the OPs predicament.

Yes, this is what I was referring to as well and I did test this out and it does work but unfortunately for op it's not an option.

 

[NetNathan]

Yes, this is what I was referring to as well and I did test this out and it does work but unfortunately for op it's not an option.

Yea... it might be worth testing.
Even though the IO server is shut down in the SMC, isn't it still talking to Intouch, just not the PLC? So.. I wonder if the Access Name setting for "Advise All Items" or "Advise Only Active Items" could affect what you see?
I do know that if the IO Server looses connection while Intouch is running, all the IO tags are frozen at time of fail. It looks normal ....except for the fact that the analog tags are not changing....

 

[DaveW]

Yea... it might be worth testing.
Even though the IO server is shut down in the SMC, isn't it still talking to Intouch, just not the PLC?

Negative. Disabled IO server, rebooted PC, fired up view, view complains and wants to start the IO service as expected, didn't let it and tag still retains last value.

 

[5618]

This discussion made me think of a possible way for OP to recover the values. I have never used an Omron driver in the OI server, so I don't know if this applies. (I think it was called IO server in V10) Nowadays with the ABCIP driver, the PLC tag database is cached a few folders deep in C:\ProgramData\...

Depending on the driver and settings, maybe values are stored in that database. If OP happens to have a system backup of whatever system is running the server, could the values be recoverable from a system restore from the backup? I dunno.

I wasn't developing much with WW in the V10 days, so I don't know older versions well. This might not apply and I would be surprised but impressed if a full backup did exist.