New project, need hardware recommendations.

[Edmhydraulics]

Hello everyone. I have a a fairly large job ahead of me. I am going to be retrofitting a large baler with new controls. Luckily I have the printout of the original program on he AB plc5. I have all of the electrical drawings and hydraulic schematics and sequence of operation from the manuals.

Having had a quick look at it I would say it has about 15 ac do, 15 dc di, and maybe 5 analog voltage inputs. I am leaning towards Automation Direct, Schneider , or Siemens. I have experience programming all 3.

Also I want to use a 15" hmi for operator interface. Nothing special here, no external communications beyond the machine. Really the controls will be fairly simple, but the wiring is a mess.

Any recommendations on hardware for this job?

 

[RonJohn]

Glad to see you're back in the game so quickly! Electrical & Hydraulic schematics & an operator manual are like gold, as long as they're current.

Regarding hardware recommendations, I have more questions than answers at this point. We don't have a lot to go on besides your comfort level with the three aforementioned brands. I suspect you're looking for someone to help narrow your decision making process rather than making this a personal popularity contest.

If it's totally your call, I'd consider the following:
- OVERALL Hardware/software costs
- Existing hardware (does the plant already lean heavily towards one brand over another?)
- Is there any programming/labor advantage in going with same brand for PLC & HMI?
- Does one brand offer better support in the area where this unit is being installed?
- Do the analog signals require isolated inputs? Most cheaper PLCs have single-ended analog inputs only.
- Check analog input resolution (8, 10, 12-bit, etc.) & see if it meets your requirements.
- Compare the max current loads available for the digital outputs. If you require 1A+/channel, this may narrow the field or require interposing relays.

That's what I have off the top of my head. I've worked almost exclusively with A-B so I'm not much help.

I did one Siemens job with an S7-1200, which prompted some of the questions above. Lots of folks here use Red Lion HMIs (G3 or Graphite). I know they have a 15" model and they seem to play nice with others.

Hope this helps.

 

[ASF]

If it were me doing it, I'd use a CompactLogix 1769-L16ER-BB1B, or if money was tight, a micrologix 1400. But that's mostly just because I like AB having the PLC-5 code also leans slightly that way, because it's always easier to convert AB code to AB code, than AB code to [other brand] code.

But, if AB isn't an option, I'd be going for the S7-1200. I think it would be a very good fit for what you've got going on. Pair it with a comfort panel and program the whole thing in TIA portal and you'll find it very straightforward!

 

[Edmhydraulics]

Thanks RonJohn, yes I didn't have to look to far to find some work, in fact looks like I might have a couple of good projects to do.

I will go through your comments below.

Glad to see you're back in the game so quickly! Electrical & Hydraulic schematics & an operator manual are like gold, as long as they're current.

Regarding hardware recommendations, I have more questions than answers at this point. We don't have a lot to go on besides your comfort level with the three aforementioned brands. I suspect you're looking for someone to help narrow your decision making process rather than making this a personal popularity contest.

If it's totally your call, I'd consider the following:
- OVERALL Hardware/software costs Yes I want to keep these decent, like I said I dont need a super PLC, just something that will work and has some legs, ie: I dont want something that will be obsoleted in 2 years.
- Existing hardware (does the plant already lean heavily towards one brand over another?) No they have very little automation, more focused on heavy equipment side of the business.
- Is there any programming/labor advantage in going with same brand for PLC & HMI? Not necessarily, I have been using Red Lion Graphite displays in the last few projects, with good results.
- Does one brand offer better support in the area where this unit is being installed? Both Siemens and Schneider have good support here, not too sure about Automation Direct, whats the consensus here on them?
- Do the analog signals require isolated inputs? Most cheaper PLCs have single-ended analog inputs only. No, I dont think this would be an issue.
- Check analog input resolution (8, 10, 12-bit, etc.) & see if it meets your requirements. Would like to see at least 12-bit.
- Compare the max current loads available for the digital outputs. If you require 1A+/channel, this may narrow the field or require interposing relays. Definately something I have to check on, most of the valve coils are probably going to be over 1 amp.

That's what I have off the top of my head. I've worked almost exclusively with A-B so I'm not much help.

I did one Siemens job with an S7-1200, which prompted some of the questions above. Lots of folks here use Red Lion HMIs (G3 or Graphite). I know they have a 15" model and they seem to play nice with others.

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for your input.

 

[Edmhydraulics]

ASF, thanks for the input, I am leaning towards the S7, but I have to check prices as I priced out Siemens in a while. Like I said in my previous post, I want something with legs, and Siemens isnt going away anytime soon.

I will keep everyone posted on how this project goes, I photocopied 150 pages of info from the manuals including the current PLC program, have to start going through that tomorrow.

Cheers,

Edm

 

[boneless]

Remember your Siemens License fees as well!

The Siemens 15" panels are really nice, and interfacing with a 1200 PLC would be easy since you can program them in the same environment.

Again, check what license you need for what screen.

 

[keithkyll]

I would go with Automation Direct, or the AB's previously mentioned to make copying original code easier.
KEP eMT3150A for the 15" HMI. Link

 

[DwSoFt]

Yes glad you are doing well. Did you end up starting your own company? I am Mostly AB so I'm not much good for you either. 1 thing to note is that the PLC 5 still has high demand on Ebay so if you get to keep it you may get a few bucks that way as well. I'd love me a 4-20 analog input card wink wink. anyways good luck!

 

[Edmhydraulics]

Dan, yes I did end up starting my own outfit. Just quoting a few jobs now. I have to get insurance, and thats going to cost plenty if I want to do work in the patch, used to do contracting about 10 years ago, and thats what ended up killing it in the end, never tell the insurance guys you have a welder or know how to use it. Now I will just say I have a big blue generator made by Miller, Lol.

Thats funny you mention the PLC5 parts, we might have to make sure that they get to a good home, nudge, nudge.

I will keep you all posted.

Edm.

 

[DwSoFt]

Haha. Awesome and good luck! My CNRL Client has 4 PLC 5s. and my Harvest client has another 2. lol.
Yes high insurances is why I subcontract through my employer...

 

[Edmhydraulics]

Hey everyone, just wanted to give you an update, this project is almost done, here is a photo of the HMI mounted on a swing arm. Now on to the next job, and by the way, if anyone has any work in the Edmonton area, give me a call, I could use another project.

Thanks,

Edm.

 

[DwSoFt]

that looks cool. what did you.end up using for hardware?

 

[Edmhydraulics]

Thanks Dw, I used Automation Direct DL06 for the PLC, and a Red Lion Graphite 15" HMI.

 

[DwSoFt]

Ah. right on. I have a bit of experience with the DL06. haven't used a Redlion yet. Kind of looks similar from a far as the Proface 17" screen I was working on in September.

 

[Edmhydraulics]

Ya it worked well, I like the Red Lion Graphites, thats 2 of them I have used in the last few months. They are pretty simple to set up and can talk to just about everything out there one way or another.

I just need another nice project like this to get me into the new year, problem is when you are working on a project, you dont have time to pound pavement looking for other work. Such is the life of a contractor. Lol.

Cheers,

Edm