New to PLC programming

[janner_10]

So I take it you dont get the phone calls in the middle of the night, I would learn them all but for the most part write in ladder... and its not just so you dont get the phone calls but you also want your customer to be happy with your product, if their people can not fix/troubleshoot it and they have to call you every time then you did a disservice not a service for them

We tend to send out software that is tested and complete.

Customers having to go-online and fix it would mean some major head-rolling would occur.

I quote from another well established poster, sentiments I agree with:

"I used to write programs to be read and understood by Homer Simpson, but stopped. This is almost 2017, I'm not going to cripple performance or my productivity to write to an audience that can't even troubleshoot a physical relay ladder diagram anymore."

 

[Dravik]

So I take it you dont get the phone calls in the middle of the night, I would learn them all but for the most part write in ladder... and its not just so you dont get the phone calls but you also want your customer to be happy with your product, if their people can not fix/troubleshoot it and they have to call you every time then you did a disservice not a service for them

I certainly agree that you should take skillsets into account.

I work with AB hardware, Siemens hardware, and CodeSys based hardware every day. I need to be able to understand, write, and troubleshoot in LD, FB, and STL, sometimes more than 1 in the same Controller.

So we(techs, engineers, etc) have collectively learned how to work in each.

 

[geniusintraining]

We tend to send out software that is tested and complete.

Customers having to go-online and fix it would mean some major head-rolling would occur.

So having bought and commissioned equipment for 20+ years from all over the World I find it hard to believe that you sell equipment that is very complicated then... once its in the factory it always needs changes and upgrades and not to mention that we are always trying to better the production, man hours and product

Also the second best way to troubleshoot is in the looking at the logic, but if you sell something that never has a input or output that fail please tell me who you are so we can start buying or selling your equipment

 

[janner_10]

Lets agree to disagree then.

In addition we would be happy to sell you any type of our Extrusion Cutting machines or Conveyor Systems.

 

[John Morris]

Rookie question, but one Iv'e never asked.

Do rung comments take up memory???. In the laptop/PC or PLC?

If you open a program without the original all you get is the ladder? Correct?

Iv'e never written a program big enough to bottom out a PLC ( any of them ), so it was never a concern , but in reference to glcshortt's comment, I document the hell out of my program. Not for the maintenance guy's, for me. I'm getting old and in two month's I wont remember what i was thinking when I wrote it. So all I can imagine in ten years I'll be writing a book of rung comments just to keep up with a fading memory, and a busy schedule.

 

[janner_10]

They do take up memory but not much and memory is very cheap these days.

You download them by default but can turn it off. So when you upload (since I can't remember the version no.) you get the comments too, which it very handy indeed.

 

[harryting]

Depend on the PLC. Newer PLC tend to have more memory and store comments in the memory.

 

[geniusintraining]

Lets agree to disagree then.

 

[ASF]

What the Maintenance guy can beothered to learn or not learn, is of no concern to you.

It's definitely of concern to me if I no longer get asked to quote on projects for that factory. There's no point in me being right and unemployed.

I agree with you that not learning ST would be doing yourself a disservice, because you're absolutely right, there are places where it is appropriate to use, and I have used it in those places.

But in my opinion, it's foolish to completely disregard the level of expertise and the particular role that the maintenance technicians play in the environment you're selling your product into. It may be different in different parts of the world, but in my neck of the woods and in my industry, it's almost guaranteed that within 18 months of us putting a system in, management will want a small functional change to how something happens, and they will want the guys that they are paying good money to be onsite 24/7 to be able to do it without having to call in outside contractors. If we sold them something that they couldn't do that to, we'd soon find ourselves without a lot of clients.

I'm not saying I never do it, I'm just saying that I want to be sure I've got a good reason for doing it.

"This is a very advanced and specialized part of the software, and it should not be modified ad hoc without advice from the machine supplier. It is a tried and tested function and we can guarantee that the code here will not be the source of any common problems" is a good reason.

"The maintenance technicians at this facility are well-trained and can understand complex code" is a good reason.

"This facility has no maintenance technicians and they will be required to call in specialized contractors for any PLC-related issues or modifications anyway" is a good reason

"It was quicker and we made more money from the job" is not a good reason

"I don't care about your maintenance guys, they just need to reach the same skill level as me" is definitely not a good reason.

 

[crackerbuzz]

Haha!

Good to see a bit of competition and banter!

This is what will help me to get started.

I have just organised some training for early next year and will give him this information and gauge his reaction...

Cheers!

 

[nathan.slade]

I agree with ASF. As a maintenance tech for over 20 years in a lot of difference industries hear in australia you need to be a jack of all trades and a master of all. I have worked with just about all types of pic's sold in australia and all languages. From a management point of view you can not train your tech's in all brands and all languages. From most of my experience most can be in ladder and when done well can make it very quick and easy to fault find for tech's. Again when not written well in any language can make it very trying. All of my manages would give any contractors the flick if they wouldn't program in a easy-to-use way from a tech level