Off Topic but interesting read

[elevmike]

Bob,


Suggestions to decrease demnad for gasoline:

A. Let loose a deadly virus, such as the avian flu, that wipes out 30% of the population. Now that might reduce the demand for gasoline when people stop traveling out of fear of exposure.

People will just hoard. Unless there's a really bad pandemic that kills 20-30 million that will cut consumption just due to less consumers...

B. Engage in a vicious war with another country that kills thousands of young men and women, and thus lowering the birth rate and the future demand for gasoline.

The current conflict wont have enough effect. Most of the people dieing over there arnt big petroluem consumers anyway. We need a war that will kill millions, like WWII where maybe 20 million died.

C. Raise the price to discourage casual consumption.

That might help...

D. Close our borders to illegal immigrants (and more gasoline users).

Wont work, These people are usually bussed in mass to the fields, but on the other hand Americans all drive their own cars..

E. Set up government programs to encourage the manufacture of alternative fuels and alternative fuel vehicles.

The problem here is the current goverment programs are based on politics and not economics & science. How much energy does it take to GROW a BTU of fuel vs. digging it out of the ground, & who pays the difference?. The tax payer, not the consumer.

 

[CroCop]

America != Free Market
When you've got Big Oil on both sides of politicos, & other big business lining up on both sides as well, there is no such thing as free market.

 

[elevmike]

Terry,

I hate to say it, but sometimes a trust/monoply is better for the consumer. What happened when Ma Bell was broken up? Did your phone service get better? Did it cost less? Now ATT is buying back up all the Baby Bells.. So here we are back again at the same starting gate...

In the case of gas, if the distribution network were broken up there would be all kinds of problems. Redudent pipe lines making the eco people scream & driving up distribution cost, = more $$ at the pump. What's more efficent? 20 smaller refineries, or 5 or 6 big ones?

If you dont like Exxon'$ profit$, then buy their stock; maybe that will give you a change in perspective... Besides, that's the only recourse you have...

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Terry should have bought energy stocks or a mutual fund.

I bet Terry would mind so much if he had bought energy stocks or mutual funds when they were cheap.

Mike, it is actually SBC that is buying ATT. The new company will use ATT for name recognition. I don't think the government should have broken up ATT. I also don't think the old ATT would have had a monopoly on cell phones, cable, etc. The world was going to change no matter what ATT or congress did. Europe or Japan would have forced the current reality on us.

I don't think monopolies are good. Like I said ATT would have been besieged on many fronts and it would never had monopoly on anything but old fashioned telephones. Now how many of us has a land line anymore? I don't. I have only a cell phone ( tracfone ) and cable ( skype and msn messenger and bonjour ). I have video communications! So who needs a land line?

There will be some energy technology that will upset the old order just like cable and cell phones reducing or eliminating the need for land lines. Be ready to invest in the new order before it becomes the old order.

Mean while, I can ride my bicycle to work if I want. I get my exercise for the day and save about $5 each day. That is like getting paid to exercise!

 

[darrenj]

Terry,

What happened when Ma Bell was broken up? Did your phone service get better? .

Ma Bell is canadian!! so back off get your own ma!!

Every one seems to have skipped over 10BaseT's response..gas has hit an all time high over there..as it will here..we are given all kinds of ******** reasons why..but the simple fact is its greed..do you remeber during Katrina the price went up??It went up becouse of "Projected damage"..guess what...the damage wasnt as bad as they had figured..did prices go down>?...nope..why./..becouse we brought it anyway..we have to..and they know it...in canada they blame it on the refinery cost..even tho we have the biggest oil reserve next to the the middle east..(Time to kiss *** US!! You WILL be buying oil from us in 5-10 years!!)..The other thing they like to blame prices on is the transportation...hell the pipeline has been in place for years..it dosnt cost any more no than it did 5 years ago...

D

 

[PLCS4LIFE]

YO GOOGLE MEATSPIN

IIGHT PEACE
TYRECE JACKSON

 

[Tom Jenkins]

This thread seems to be another one where people want the world to act the way they think it should, not the way it really does.

Oil companies are not a monopoly. One of the reasons they have record profits is that they are maintaining a fixed percentage margin on a higher dollar volume of sales. Do they manipulate prices to maximize profits - certainly. Are they colluding with each other to do so - highly unlikely.

I have yet to figure out how not buying gas on a given day will drop prices. We all use our cars for transportation and for a given vehicle a certain number of miles means a certain volume of gas, period. The gas we don't buy on Monday will be purchased on Tuesday or Wednesday instead. The only result of this stunt would be longer lines at the pump Tuesday moring.

The only answer is for consumers to use less gas, either by driving less or using more efficient vehicles. This would make the price per gallon go up, of course, because there are a lot of fixed costs in producing gas. On the other hand, the individual consumer would be using less of the more expensive gas so his total transportation cost would go down.

The discussion of economic philosophy is just a reflection of the same "the world should be this way" attitude. Remember, communism and socialism have almost universally failed because they were formulated by well meaning idealists. The capitalist system has succeeded because it was formulated by cynical pragmatists. The communists (and here I am talking about Marx and Engels, not Stalin and Castro) thought the world should react a certain way. The other group knew from observation that the world actually reacted in other ways and according to the individuals self interest.

 

[Money4Nothing]

HAHAHA gas companies can charge so much for gas because people will pay for it no matter what the price. Its simple. I work in the oil and gas industry so high gas prices are great for me. I'll probably be getting a nice raise from my company very soon as our profits continue to increase

People think they need gas, so they buy it and cut back in other areas. Oil companies don't have us by the throat, we have ourselves by the throat.

I know people that drive 20 extra miles to go to Wal Mart or the mall EVERY DAY. PFFFTTTT. I go shopping once a week at the most. If I run out of something, I don't make an extra trip to the store...I do without.

I have neighbors that work at the same place, and they drive seperate cars to work. WHAAA??? I car pool with another fella at my work and I drive 5 extra miles to pick him up. But between the two of us we save 20 miles a day of driving.

My brother and sister live in the same town, and when we go visit my parents for a holiday, they each drive their own vehicle to and from the exact location at the same time for 500 miles instead of riding together because its too much of an "inconvenience". I love my bro and sis but OMG I wanna slap them sometimes. I can only wonder how many times this scenario is repeated every weekend in the US.

I know people that work 70 hours a week or more, but they commute 60 miles one way instead of moving to a perfectly nice neighborhood thats 5 minutes from the job site. All because they just re-tiled their kitchen and they don't wanna move. Ok....if its work $200 more a month in gas to you, then I'm not complaining. Its not like you drive anywhere else, or there isn't a perfectly good soccer field for your kids right across the street. Why not drive 60 miles to Outback to have lunch with your mom on Sunday, and 5 miles to work the other 6 days of the week? Question.

I see H2s and SUVs being driven by 40-year old female divorce lawyers. HUHHHH??? I'm pretty sure they aren't going offroad anytime soon. What, a 24mpg lexus isn't good enough, you need a 14mpg Escalade? Ever heard of a mini-van? Turns out some people are willing to spend $400 a month on gas. Its not Exxon's fault. (I own a pickup truck but I only drive it for utility purposes.)


The bottom line is people in the US are spoiled and accustomed to instant gratification, and as long as they can spare a few extra bucks they will spend it on gas to keep from having any little inconvenience introduced into their lifestyle. I'm rooting for the oil companies on this one. Charge as much as you can, get me a nice raise, and I'll save my own money on gas!

$

 

[russrmartin]

All of this war of words, and how many of us are doing anything like driving an electric vehicle, or even a hybrid for that matter. Nope, I'll be the vast majority here are driving Expeditions and Chevy Tahoes. Even with the price of gas at what it is, how much do you all pay for gas per month? I go over $200 easily, but that is because I drive to the closest univeristy every day. 2 more years though, and at the current prices, I should only be spending about $100 per month, at the most. The price won't bother me nearly as much then.

 

[S7Guy]

What happened when Ma Bell was broken up? Did your phone service get better? Did it cost less?

Actually, yes. Phone service is better than it has ever been, and cheaper too. I can call long distance from my land line anywhere in the US (and parts of Europe) for three cents per minute. Compare that to the 70s when people couldn't afford to routinely call long distance. Heck, I wouldn't even want to go back to the phone service of ten years ago.

 

[MarkTTU]

Actually, yes. Phone service is better than it has ever been, and cheaper too. I can call long distance from my land line anywhere in the US (and parts of Europe) for three cents per minute. Compare that to the 70s when people couldn't afford to routinely call long distance. Heck, I wouldn't even want to go back to the phone service of ten years ago.

The real question should be is the far superior and cheaper phone service we enjoy today a result of the Ma Bell breakup, or is it the result of new technology allowing new players to enter the market and drive the price down while driving the quality/service up? I'll make no attempt to answer this question for you, but I don't personally think the telecomm industry would look much different today if Ma Bell had not been broken up...

 

[Terry Woods]

mark...

Don't you see that the answer is BOTH!...?

The improved quality of telecommunications is a direct result of new-players bringing in better levels of quality at a decent, if not more decent, rate.

You are, undoubtedly, too young to know how AT&T held us hostage for so many years.

 

[MarkTTU]

You are, undoubtedly, too young to know how AT&T held us hostage for so many years.

That is true, but I do have a decent (if not good) knowledge of the breakup... from my understanding (ie, what I've been told, but I trust the source) AT&T wasn't a monopoly by the time it was broken up though it was a monopoly when the process started. From what I know of the events the competitors who actually caused most of the innovation and cheaper rates were already around before the baby bells were created.

 

[rsdoran]

AT&T was a conglomerate of different companies, this may help; http://www.bellsystemmemorial.com/bellsystem_history.html

AT&T was strong on developing and creating innovations to phone services but alas it was a monopoly...more or less government sanctioned, just like most electrical, water, and gas utility services today.

The breakup did not help in any fashion or form too expedite advances in phone services. What it did do is allow many the opportunity to USE THE OLD BELL system wiring and have a monopoly in certain areas for many years...in most cases those monopolies are still in place....ie these places the phone companies have a contract that disallows ANY COMPETITION for X number of years. IF you live in a rural area you know what I mean.

One of the few reasons we can be on the internet has to do with options being provided that did not entail the use of the phone lines...the phone companies and ISP's would have been glad to still charge by the minute, I am not so sure AT&T would not have created an even better solution at a better price.

 

[harryting]

LoL, me joining the beating...

1/4 of the way throught the OP I was thinking to myself.."gez, this is the dumbest thing.. it can't be true"... so I googled

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

oops, already posted by someone...NM

-better idea... get out your stinking SUV.