Panel Builder Rant (Profibus or 4-20mA)

[Firejo]

Not that this addresses the rant, but you could add your analog channels via this product. The protocol master doesn’t have to be in the same panel (but it does need to be in a safe environment (no water, excessive or hazardous dust, etc…)). You also wouldn’t have to deal with Profibus, you just simply message to and from the protocol master as if it were another AB PLC (SLC, MicroLogix).
http://www.data-linc.com/cixfamily/cix6400.htm

 

[Timbert]

If your company had a crystal ball you'd have specified the analog I/O when you bought the panel. If the builder had a crystal ball he'd have provided it.

I don't need a crystal ball because most panels I've built had something added at some point.

"Look at all the wasted space in this panel" -- said no one ever.

 

[JeremyM]

Add some Point I/O and be done with it!

You could have inherited TWO of these little gems while being told "the enclosures cannot be replaced":

 

[padees]

Add some Point I/O and be done with it!

You could have inherited TWO of these little gems while being told "the enclosures cannot be replaced":

That's actually quite typical at a number of factories around here, but the wires are so darn neat in that panel, and not all black

 

[JeremyM]

'Neat', lol.

I normally don't post these, but here's one of the re-worked panels:

 

[Bering C Sparky]

Add some Point I/O and be done with it!

You could have inherited TWO of these little gems while being told "the enclosures cannot be replaced":

That's a beauty....I love the RTD/Current Transmitter hanging by the wires and the transformer just thrown in the bottom there.

But the Point I/O in your nicely reworked panel is probably a good solution for the OP's problem of adding some Analog....Point I/O does not take up much space and he can squeeze it into his existing panel on one of the lower rails. (Move those ground terminal blocks over and it looks like you could squeak it in there.)

BCS

 

[Rob S.]

What about Remote I/O ? It looks like you have Ethernet. Maybe relocate your
ground terminals around the middle left.

 

[kwade]

'Neat', lol.

I normally don't post these, but here's one of the re-worked panels:

Now, How do I know which PowerFlex is #1 or #2. You've gone and thrown a spanner in the works!

 

[JeffKiper]

JeremyM what type of back panel is that?

 

[Pete.S.]

It is, but i have very little understanding of profibus. Funny, our company policy now is for all instruments to be profibus instead of 4-20mA, but they wont send us (control system engineers) on any profibus training or give us the tools necessary to support / maintain profibus networks.

Doesn't make any sense to promote Profibus. It's is old tech and Profinet is the successor.

Siemens which practically invented Profibus, don't even have Profibus interfaces integrated in their new PLCs anymore. They still support profibus of course but you have to add modules to get it.

 

[ASF]

I know exactly how this thing can happen. It's called budget. The designer gets pushed into working within an unrealistic budget.

Standard panel is nice and spacious. In walks the spec. PLC rack size doubles (because we only use CLX and 13 slot racks, even if you only need 4 slots), relay's turn into 3 pole ice cube, class CC fuses need to be class J, terminals go from 6mm to 8mm, the spec'd ethernet switch turns doubles in size.

The designer goes to the project manager and says the panel size is increasing because it's too tight. Project manager says: sorry, the customer only has room for this size panel. Designer says, but it it too tight. Sorry, a larger panel was not in the budget, we have to go with it. Designer inserts his face into the palm of his hand and folds like a lawn chair.

Oh my God, it's so accurate it hurts! I think you and I share some of the same clients dmroeder

"Look at all the wasted space in this panel" -- said no one ever.

You two have just made my day

 

[JeremyM]

JeremyM what type of back panel is that?

It's a perforated panel.

 

[trentg@felixconstruc]

Completely agree with Tom.

I am assuming that this is a "sole source" panel builder, because if it is a bid panel the obvious answer is it was cheaper and they wanted the business more than their competitors.

I am constantly surprised at the amount of posts blaming the builder for issues that should have been caught during design review. This indicates that design reviews are being omitted from your projects or the right people are not being invited to the design review. This is probably more of a problem than your builder will ever be able to inject into your process. In the water world not only is there a design review but a customer FAT for every panel that leaves this shop. Would like to be able to say that is our shop standard, but it really is the industry standard. I don't have one customer that doesn't expect this. Just built 6 manual motor starter buckets for a Muni, so simple it could have been a class project. We still had to provide drawings for review and a FAT and this is one of our primary clients. We wont even order a part until you have looked at the design (layout and schematics) and provide WRITTEN authorization to proceed with PROCUREMENT and BUILD.

 

[benaiahhenry]

But the Point I/O in your nicely reworked panel is probably a good solution for the OP's problem of adding some Analog....Point I/O does not take up much space and he can squeeze it into his existing panel on one of the lower rails. (Move those ground terminal blocks over and it looks like you could squeak it in there.)

BCS

Add some Point I/O and be done with it!

This looks like the best option to me as well, certainly the path I'd try to go down.

-Benaiah

 

[Oceansoul]

The way these "big" projects are organised is that we give a requirement to capital delivery contractor who then sub contract it out. They are the ones dealing with the panel builders and who don't really care if there is extra space in the PLC rack. After all, once their project is complete and we have paid them they move on to the next contract. We do stipulate that they leave 25% IO for additions, but that's a grey area, as in this case technically they have left 25% extra analogue IO - 0!!!.

I thinking that adding to the profibus will be the most painless option. All the PLC cards etc that we use have to be from our company agreed Rockwell onespec, which doesn't carry the point IO cards!!!!

Nothing is easy!!!!!!!!!!