Panel View Plus 600

[AlignPLC]

Hello everyone
I have a PanelView Plus 600 that is acting up. To be able to go into our manual operations of the machine it runs, a small fluid cell press, we have to type in a passcode that gives us access to the I/O screen, manual operation buttons, etc. But the issue we have is once we click on that menu screen to get to the passcode screen it immediately kicks us off back to the main screen. Somethings malfunctioning somewhere it seems. My thought is we would need to redownload the program for that HMI again to reset it if somehow it's glitched but I'm a newbie to connecting to HMI's from a laptop. Going forward what needs to happen? From my research I see need an ethernet cord to connect and interface with the HMI but my laptop doesn't have an ethernet port on it. Is there a usb to ethernet cord I could use instead? And with FactoryTalk... What do I need to do there? I see on my computer I have FactoryTalk Activation manager but no actual Factory Talk View file yet. I got a RW TechConnect contract a couple months ago to update our RSLogix 500 but FactoryTalk wasn't something I needed to worry about at the time so I didn't dig into it at that time. From my limited understanding I need FactoryTalk to interface with the HMI correct? Sorry to dump a whole lot. I appreciate any help
Thanks guys

 

[joseph_e2]

The first thing I would try is to power down the HMI and gently clean it. Use low pressure compressed air (like canned air) to remove any hard/gritty stuff and then use a soft, clean cloth. You shouldn't need anything else. Check it for cracks and deep scratches. It may be registering a spurious touch.


Also try a USB mouse plugged into the HMI.



The software you need is "Factory Talk View Studio for Machine Edition". It used to be called RSView Studio back in the day. If you don't have a license, contact your local distributor. For your HMI, I'm pretty sure you're going to need v5.x, but v6 may work as well. You'll probably also need a 32 bit windows machine.



The software will include a program called "Application Manager" that you can use to backup/restore project archives.


There's another included program called "ME Transfer Utility" that you would use to transfer the MER ("Machine Edition Runtime") file to/from the HMI. On the older HMIs, that was fine, but around v6 or 8 or so, the transfer via Ethernet went from a reasonable time (less than a minute or so) to 5-10 minutes so I switched to using a USB flash drive. To do that, you need to boot to the configuration mode.


To get to configuration mode, here are some links that may be helpful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PLC/comments/d0iudn/config_mode_on_panelview_plus_700/


https://theautomationblog.com/how-do-i-access-the-panelview-plus-configuration-menu/


For newer panels (not yours, but you may need it in the future):
https://theautomationblog.com/panel...missing-or-f1-not-opening-configuration-mode/


If you don't have the software, I would first try to get to configuration mode and transfer the runtime file to a flash drive. NOTE: there may be several runtime files on the HMI, with no obvious indication as to which one is current! To figure out which file runs on startup, check the startup settings. I don't have a PV+ handy to write down the menu structure, but there is a page of startup settings somewhere that tells the HMI which MER file to run on power up. Write that down if there are more than 1 MER file on the HMI. Then you can share the MER file here and someone can try to decompile it. If it's at least v5 and not locked, it can be decompiled into a project that you can edit with View Studio. It can also be possible to see what version of View Studio was used to create it.


While you're in the configuration mode, check and write down the firmware version of the HMI. It may very well be different from what's shown on the label. If you ever recompile a new MER file, you'll need to know the version of the HMI.



There are USB Ethernet adapters out there. I've used them a lot over the years. Here's a USB 3.0 model but if your laptop is really old, you may need to find a USB 2.0 version:
USB Ethernet adapter (Amazon)


I've been using a USB 2.0 version of this one for a couple of years with good results:
USB Ethernet adapter (Best Buy)

 

[AlignPLC]

Okay I have to make one critical correction on my part. The HMI is actually just a PanelView 600 not the Plus 600. My mistake I apologize. It's old I'm assuming because it only has an ethernet connection it looks like and another that I am not familiar with (obviously the incoming power and ribbon cables also)

 

[plvlce]

Okay I have to make one critical correction on my part. The HMI is actually just a PanelView 600 not the Plus 600. My mistake I apologize. It's old I'm assuming because it only has an ethernet connection it looks like and another that I am not familiar with (obviously the incoming power and ribbon cables also)

That is a rather critical correction indeed! The original Panelview line is a very different beast and does not use FactoryTalk at all. I also don't recall ever seeing a USB port on one, so that option is out.

You don't sound confident this is an Ethernet model, so verify it before proceeding further -- some DH485 models also use an RJ45 port. If the model # is accessible then you can tell from that -- only models ending in C20 have Ethernet. If the model # is not available see what it connects to.

There are two major options for extracting the program.

1. Use a PCMCIA flash card. If the firmware is relatively new a properly formatted (FAT16 iirc) CompactFlash ATA card in an adapter will work, though I have heard of people having issues with some manufacturers' cards. If the firmware is old (v1 or v2, or something like that) it requires a linear flash card which you may have trouble sourcing

2. Connect directly, usually via RSLinx. How you connect will depend on the model -- if it's Ethernet you will likely have few issues, if it's DH485 you may need to buy a USB adapter.

Regardless, to do much with the program you will need PanelBuilder32 software: see Tech note QA55786 (Access Level: Everyone). Talk to your distributor if you need it.

 

[joseph_e2]

Ok, so you have an old black bezel PanelView Standard. They're long obsolete...


What's the actual catalog number and series of the HMI?



Check the label next to the RJ45. Odds are excellent that it's NOT Ethernet but is DH485. Connecting it to a network adapter can fry your adapter, so don't. You'll need a UIC adapter. Rockwell makes one but it's very pricey. If it's DH485, Use this one instead:
https://www.plccable.com/allen-bradley-1747-uic-usb-to-dh485-usb-version-1747-pic-slc-500/


The software you need is PanelBuilder 32, which is still licensed and should be available from your distributor. I'd still try cleaning the screen to see if that helps. You can also pop the back off and see if there's a loose ribbon cable or something. It's a long shot, but possible. I'd definitely get online with the HMI and make a backup copy of the program.


What is the HMI talking to?

 

[AlignPLC]

Ok, so you have an old black bezel PanelView Standard. They're long obsolete...


What's the actual catalog number and series of the HMI?



Check the label next to the RJ45. Odds are excellent that it's NOT Ethernet but is DH485. Connecting it to a network adapter can fry your adapter, so don't. You'll need a UIC adapter. Rockwell makes one but it's very pricey. If it's DH485, Use this one instead:
https://www.plccable.com/allen-bradley-1747-uic-usb-to-dh485-usb-version-1747-pic-slc-500/


The software you need is PanelBuilder 32, which is still licensed and should be available from your distributor. I'd still try cleaning the screen to see if that helps. You can also pop the back off and see if there's a loose ribbon cable or something. It's a long shot, but possible. I'd definitely get online with the HMI and make a backup copy of the program.


What is the HMI talking to?

Okay. I've cleaned the screen, used compressed air to clean the electronics and it doesn't seem to have changed. The HMI is connected to the SLC 5/03. Unfortunately the cover on the back of the panelview was removed long before my time and I assume that's where the catalog # and series # are indicated? Also I did find one of the ribbon cables, small white/silverish one, easily pulled out from the black connector that pinches it in. I don't know if that's how its supposed to be held in but I had to slip it back into the black clip to reinsert on the card and hold into place. I will try supply some photos with this too.

 

[AlignPLC]

Okay nevermind on the photos, I don't know how to get them on this platform haha

 

[Ken Roach]

Trim the photos down in size and save them as *.JPG or *.PNG, then attach them to your post by clicking the Attach Files button and then selecting them for upload.

Are the plugs on the back of the PanelView Standard modular RJ-45 and a flat-sorta-modular type ? Or are they DB9 serial ports ?

You almost certainly have a DH-485 model, which can be tricky to connect to and whose cabling is NOT ETHERNET. The cables can contain +24V for auxiliary devices so you need to be careful with what you plug them into.

When you cycle power there should be some information that appears on screen about what firmware version you have. Terminals with firmware 3.x or later can use CompactFlash cards in a Type II PCMICA carrier, if those cards are under 2 GB size and formatted for FAT16 file format.

I would try navigating to the "enter passcode" screen, then un-plug the communications cable right before, or right after, attempting to advance.

My guess is that the passcode is really just a numeric entry into the PLC controller program, which is controlling which screens the PanelView displays.

That likely has to be addressed in the PLC program itself, rather than by re-loading something into the PanelView.

 

[plvlce]

The HMI is connected to the SLC 5/03.

A 5/05 would have Ethernet; since you have a 5/03 you are pretty much guaranteed not using Ethernet here.

The 5/03 you have will be DH-485 on its RJ-45 port; as Ken mentions DO NOT just plug from your computer's network port into DH-485.

As Ken notes, if you have a separate passcode screen then the passcode is probably not handled internally and is instead just being passed to the SLC which checks it -- iirc the internal security system simply asks for a password whenever you try to access a restricted screen, no separate screen necessary for passcode entry.

From how you've described the problem I suspect there may be an issue with the Handshake Tag for the numeric entry not being reset.

 

[AlignPLC]

Ok so like you say I believe you are correct it is an RJ-45 plug with a flat rectangular-ish communication cable that comes from the plc. I haven't tried plugging into anything on the PanelView from my computer. The version I got when I power cycled the machine on the PV was V03.01. I tried what you said Ken with navigating to the passcode screen and unplugging the communications cable. It did change something because now the passcode screen is the only thing I can see/operate. My passcode I type doesn't enter. I don't get any errors but it won't let me enter it either. If I hit the enter key enough times it just clears it. So I can't get past the passcode screen. Do I need to plug into the plc then and try to locate the issue in the programming there now or maybe would redownloading the program possibly reset everything and give me function back?

 

[AlignPLC]

Ok, so you have an old black bezel PanelView Standard. They're long obsolete...


What's the actual catalog number and series of the HMI?



Check the label next to the RJ45. Odds are excellent that it's NOT Ethernet but is DH485. Connecting it to a network adapter can fry your adapter, so don't. You'll need a UIC adapter. Rockwell makes one but it's very pricey. If it's DH485, Use this one instead:
https://www.plccable.com/allen-bradley-1747-uic-usb-to-dh485-usb-version-1747-pic-slc-500/


The software you need is PanelBuilder 32, which is still licensed and should be available from your distributor. I'd still try cleaning the screen to see if that helps. You can also pop the back off and see if there's a loose ribbon cable or something. It's a long shot, but possible. I'd definitely get online with the HMI and make a backup copy of the program.


What is the HMI talking to?

A 5/05 would have Ethernet; since you have a 5/03 you are pretty much guaranteed not using Ethernet here.

The 5/03 you have will be DH-485 on its RJ-45 port; as Ken mentions DO NOT just plug from your computer's network port into DH-485.

As Ken notes, if you have a separate passcode screen then the passcode is probably not handled internally and is instead just being passed to the SLC which checks it -- iirc the internal security system simply asks for a password whenever you try to access a restricted screen, no separate screen necessary for passcode entry.

From how you've described the problem I suspect there may be an issue with the Handshake Tag for the numeric entry not being reset.

plvlce Is the handshake tag something I can reset in the programming?

 

[AlignPLC]

 

[plvlce]

plvlce Is the handshake tag something I can reset in the programming?

In more detail, when you press enter on the keypad this writes a 1 to a 'notification tag'. The PLC logic is set up so that it sees the notification tag and uses that as a trigger to evaluate the entered passcode. The PLC will then write a 1 to the handshake tag, which the HMI sees and knows to clear the notification tag and close the keypad. The PLC will additionally perform any programmed logic based on the entered code (such as changing screens) and clears the handshake tag.

This is the 'normal' flow of information in this sort of scenario, and exactly how it is implemented can vary, potentially resulting in problems if the programmer did not account for unlikely scenarios (for example: will the logic to clear the handshake run if the PLC is power cycled after it is set but before it is cleared? Depending on how the handshake is normally cleared this may or may not cause a problem, but if it does it is unlikely to show up in testing).

My initial thought is something wrong with the notification/handshake such that the passcode is being evaluated without giving you a chance to actually change it (and thus is evaluated as nonvalid... does mistyping the passcode normally kick you back to the main screen as it is doing now?)

The handshake bit should be accessible if you go online with the PLC, as would the actual passcode value. It's not accessible from the HMI however afaik, short of modifying the program to add something accessing it.

It did change something because now the passcode screen is the only thing I can see/operate. My passcode I type doesn't enter. I don't get any errors but it won't let me enter it either. If I hit the enter key enough times it just clears it.

The notification tag is being written, but since the PLC is not connected that has no effect (and the PLC cannot see the changed value anyways). Eventually the numeric entry times out because it did not see the handshake tag from the PLC.

 

[AlignPLC]

So the main problem is the passcode screen for manual mode can’t even stay open long enough for me to attempt to type in a passcode. Now that is simply from trying to do it on the PV side. Now I’m hooked up on the plc and studying our program and found the Binary bit that lets me force it up on the PV by toggling the bit. Now the next thing is as I type the passcode I get no response. If I enter it , my just clears it and I have to retype again but again it does the same thing. The cable that I’m thinking you’re referring to as the handshake is the rectangle looking connector with the cable that reads “Alpha Wire -AG P/N 34670?

 

[plvlce]

So the main problem is the passcode screen for manual mode can’t even stay open long enough for me to attempt to type in a passcode. Now that is simply from trying to do it on the PV side. Now I’m hooked up on the plc and studying our program and found the Binary bit that lets me force it up on the PV by toggling the bit. Now the next thing is as I type the passcode I get no response. If I enter it , my just clears it and I have to retype again but again it does the same thing. The cable that I’m thinking you’re referring to as the handshake is the rectangle looking connector with the cable that reads “Alpha Wire -AG P/N 34670?

The handshake has nothing particularly to do with a cable, only bits.

I may have misunderstood your initial post -- what I understood you to be saying was that it shunted you to the main screen when you went to enter the passcode (that is, when you brought up the actual number entry).

Just to verify, is it instead the case that it happens as soon as you navigate to the password entry screen?

If so, then the numeric entry may be a red herring, and you should be looking at the logic for screen control instead. Are there other screens you can normally navigate to without putting in a passcode, and if so does that navigation work?

There may be up to two integers involved in screen control -- one written to by the Panelview that tells the PLC what screen it is currently on & one written to by the PLC that instructs the Panelview to go to a screen (annoyingly, both are called 'Screen Number' by the Panelview manual and software). If you can identify them, then when the Panelview is on the main screen make a note of what screen number that is and look for the logic that is writing that number to the Panelview.