PLC-2 project given a go. OH NO!

[OkiePC]

By the way I have 48 inputs and 32 Outputs.

Any analog? Weird or elaborate scada system? It does sound like a good candidate for a micro or SLC with that low I/O count especially if there are few analog. I would lean toward a Micrologix over a SLC in this case, since they seem to be improving and some SLC stuff is beginning to get silver series hair.

Ken is the Comms Wizard, but I think you will need either a 1784-PKTX, PKTXD or the laptop equivalent 1784-PCMK card ... revision level and comms software I am sure will come into play. Looks like the PCMK is much less expensive, but you may hunt around through the rat holes at work for any of them...

I can't remember if you have a valid program or just want to get a look before rewriting, but if you understand the machine well enough, writing from scratch may save even more money and time.

 

[Skiroy]

Not exactly. All "Enhanced" PLC5's have a serial ports. The "Classic" PLC5/10, 5/12 ,5/15 and 5/25 have DH+ and RIO ports only.

If the OP is looking on E-bay the very cheap ones may be the "Classic" version.

So are the PLC-5 that are not the Enhanced version the ones I would need the PCMK Card for?

 

[Mickey]

So are the PLC-5 that are not the Enhanced version the ones I would need the PCMK Card for?

Yes or a 1784-U2DHP ( USB to DH+ converter).

 

[Ken Roach]

Go ahead and try again with the Dropbox link; I tried and couldn't get it to download. Be sure it's in the Public folder.

This has become a long thread so I'm going to ask a couple of questions, some of them repeating my earlier ones.

1. Do you have any licensed RSLogix software of any kind ? In particular, do you have RSLogix 500 (not the Free edition) ?

2. What is the power supply part number and Series on the PLC-2 chassis ?

My recommendation is to replace the Mini PLC-2 with a 1771-ASB RIO network adapter, scanned by an SLC-5/05 with a 1747-SN scanner module.

Here's why:

The SLC family has been around a long time and will continue to be around a long time. You need experience with SLC-500, and this Forum is full of veteran SLC-500 users.

The 1771-ASB, 1747-SN, and 1771-L551 controller can be bought for a few hundred bucks on the aftermarket. Even the oldest models will work for this purpose.

Of all the paid RSLogix software products, RSLogix 500 is the least expensive.

The SLC-5/05 chassis and scanner require a minimal installation: you could locate them up to 10,000 feet from the machine.

The SLC-5/05 gets you Ethernet, for fast online monitoring and editing. It's worth it. Every HMI product I can think of supports the SLC-5/05.

If I had to do this project, with your budget, that's the way I'd go.

 

[Helliana]

By the way I have 48 inputs and 32 Outputs. Im not sure what the limits are for Micrologix but SLC 500 experience is what Im after because most jobs ask for knowledge of this.

With that low of an I/O count, this would be a good candidate for a Micrologix1400 as long as you don't have alot of encoder or analog inputs. The PLC itself would run you around $800, and you would need several digital input and output cards that are around $200 each. Should easily be able get everything you need for around $2000.

As far as the experience things go, there really isn't much difference in programming on a SLC500 and a Micrologix1100/1400. They both use RSLogix500 and have the same instructions. Main difference is a Micrologix is easier to set up your I/O initially.

 

[Lancie1]

If I had to do this project, with your budget, that's the way I'd go.

Me too. You already have some SLC 500s. Convert the PLC2s to SLC500s as Ken instructed, and you will have only one type of PLC to support, and one for which parts and support will be easier to find.

 

[Skiroy]

With that low of an I/O count, this would be a good candidate for a Micrologix1400 as long as you don't have alot of encoder or analog inputs. The PLC itself would run you around $800, and you would need several digital input and output cards that are around $200 each. Should easily be able get everything you need for around $2000.

As far as the experience things go, there really isn't much difference in programming on a SLC500 and a Micrologix1100/1400. They both use RSLogix500 and have the same instructions. Main difference is a Micrologix is easier to set up your I/O initially.

Well I would need all A/C inputs and Output cards.

I talked to my nemesis today. And now he is talking about bringing in a contractor to upgrade evrything to Micrologix 1400 after they told him everything I have been telling him about staying with PLC-2 or going PLC-5. He knows I have knowledge of RS LOGIX 500 so he is going to try everything he can to keep me from it.

So I need to start making a Address conversion spreadsheet and begin programing with my free version of RS LOGIX 500.

Here is the program

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/Burroak%20Program.PDF?w=3ddf53fc

My questions are the following:

1. I how would I write in RS LOGIX 500 the equalvilent to how they used ---(MCR)--- and -----(ZCL)---- commands and can you give a brief explanation of each in lamens terms just so I fully understand them?

2. What is with all the numbers in Parrenthesis on the input side and all the lists of numbers on the output sides? Is this just for rung refernces of where that input or output is being used throuhout the rest of the program?

3.Why is address terminal 9 always missing? Not relevant to the uograde just curious.

4. On all AC I/O modules. Is L2 for inputs usually the common terminal for the Input modules and L1 is the common for the Outputs? Im used to DC and the option of Sink vs Source option. So Im trying to compare this to a AC system.

5. If I write the program on my free version will there be any problem opening it up in the Start edition they are going to purchase?

 

[Helliana]

http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/12762/2181376/2416247/25463/2164029/tab3.html lists all the available digital expansion I/O available for the micro1000-1400.

Keep in mind you are limited to 7 expansion cards in a micrologix1400. However, 4x 1762-IA8 and 3x 1762-OW16 should give you enough I/O and you will have a few spares. Because this will bring your to your I/O expansion limit, you may want to purchase the PLC with integrated analog inputs and outputs if you think you may be adding them in the future.

As for wiring AC I/O, it works like wiring control relay coil. You will bring a common/neutral to the common of your A/C input card. You will then take your hot leg and run it through all your different switches, relay contacts, etc, then to your input card.

As for your software, keep in mind the FREE version of RSLogix only works on Micrologix 1000 and Micrologix 1100. It DOES NOT work on a 1400.

Also, If you get the chance to do programming on this machine, don't except to just copy the PLC2 code line for line and expect it to work. Spend your time trying to understand exactly how the machine is SUPPOSED to work and make it happen. Its very likely you can greatly improve/simplify the existing code and work pieces of code that are dated or you do not understand. Just be sure to keep things SAFE and don't get anyone hurt.

 

[OkiePC]

Well I would need all A/C inputs and Output cards.

I talked to my nemesis today. And now he is talking about bringing in a contractor to upgrade evrything to Micrologix 1400 after they told him everything I have been telling him about staying with PLC-2 or going PLC-5. He knows I have knowledge of RS LOGIX 500 so he is going to try everything he can to keep me from it.

Wait a minute, the ML1400 is programmed with RSLogix500, so he may have done you a favor.

So I need to start making a Address conversion spreadsheet and begin programing with my free version of RS LOGIX 500.

---

My questions are the following:

1. I how would I write in RS LOGIX 500 the equalvilent to how they used ---(MCR)--- and -----(ZCL)---- commands and can you give a brief explanation of each in lamens terms just so I fully understand them?

Get rid of them all where possible.

2. What is with all the numbers in Parrenthesis on the input side and all the lists of numbers on the output sides? Is this just for rung refernces of where that input or output is being used throuhout the rest of the program?

Yes, if the report has cross referencing turned on, and, if it works like RSLogix5, this would indicate address cross refernce.

3.Why is address terminal 9 always missing? Not relevant to the uograde just curious.

Octal addressing for 1771 i/o modules (at least for a PLC-5). "8" should be missing, too. You should see addressing like EDIT: (In a PLC-5, the PLC-2 may be similar) "O:01/00" through "O:01/07" then "O:01/10" through "O:01/17" in the data table for a 16 point card.

4. On all AC I/O modules. Is L2 for inputs usually the common terminal for the Input modules and L1 is the common for the Outputs? Im used to DC and the option of Sink vs Source option. So Im trying to compare this to a AC system.

Please specify part numbers as there are numerous AC input and output modules available. The most common AC input module is 1771-IAD which has 16 input points. You attach the common (four?) terminals that should be lettered rather than numbered IIRC, and assuming the correct wiring arms which also have a few options. I am assuming that you are using 1771 I/O and chassis, correct me if I am wrong.

5. If I write the program on my free version will there be any problem opening it up in the Start edition they are going to purchase?

No, but the reverse is not true. The Free version only opens files with the controller type set to ML1100 or ML1000 unless it has very recently changed. Look up the specs for the loads you are driving. I have some 1771 I/O with 12 outputs...12 2 amp triacs per card with onboard fuses...they bang big Nema coils (up to size 4) in and out with somewhat frequent cycling for condenser fans...they are virtually bulletproof. Your little legologix can't handle that type of load.

Ken's solution is perfect, but your situation is not all that bad. The 1771 I/O is extremely repairable extremely rugged and extremely common. It will be around for fifty more years. I am not nearly as confident in the reliability and power of the Micrologix I/O in comparison to a beast. 1771 I/O chassis give me a semi. Big thick steel frames with locking levers made of thick-azs metal. But the Micrologix should run circles around the PLC-2 as far as scan time if the PLC-2 is comparable to the -5. This may alleviate the need for JMP/LBL/MCR and the like.

I believe the OS between the ML1400 and ML1100 is very similar so you could get a head start with the free version.

Write generic code with an I/O map, and just leave out the I/O map (map the bits to themselves to mark them, and ease of toggling for testing). You can fill in the blanks in the input map with the real I/O when you get ahold of the real software license.

Filling in the blanks means: offline, find and replace the XIC addresses in the input map with the actual device addresses, and in the output map, you do the same for the OTE instructions.

Everywhere else in the code, you program using those mapped bits. I normally use B11 for inputs and B10 for outputs sorta like file 0 and 1.

As for your license: I would also recommend that you look into a concurrent activation, and use the FTA server/client arrangement if you do a lot of work from a desk in a network environment where it would be handy to a) share the license b) access it from multiple devices for your own purposes. If you want to hog it on one PC for longer than the FTA borrowing limit, I think you can set it up to serve it to yourself quite easily and still more or less node lock a concurrent license on one machine.

 

[Skiroy]

As for your software, keep in mind the FREE version of RSLogix only works on Micrologix 1000 and Micrologix 1100. It DOES NOT work on a 1400.

quote]
Right but if I write it on the free version can I open the file in the $700.00 starter version and use it with the Micro 1400?

 

[alan_505]

You will only be able to select the ML1100 when writing the Program, when you open it with the new software you will need to change the processor type to ML1400 and add any IO that you are going to use and then map the IO to your program.


Alan

I have not tried to open a project from the free version, if you post a test program we can try and open it with the paid version for you.

 

[Skiroy]

Can someone explain to me how the timers work here? I just need to know how to identify the DN and RES instructions in the program. Please look at the I/O definitions list at the end. Also the MCR and ZCL questions remain.

Im assuming all the STOR.Bits used can be replaced with B3 dummy binary addresses?

 

[jrwb4gbm]

Can someone explain to me how the timers work here? I just need to know how to identify the DN and RES instructions in the program. Please look at the I/O definitions list at the end. Also the MCR and ZCL questions remain.

Im assuming all the STOR.Bits used can be replaced with B3 dummy binary addresses?

For info on the MCR and ZCL, see this manual, beginning at page 6-8.
Link:
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/pm/1772-pm002_-en-e.pdf

 

[The Plc Kid]

Use the free version of logix 500 to write your code for the micrologix 1000 platform but buffer your IO that way it can be switched very easy to whatever processor you end up with micrologix,slc,

Once this is nailed down and you have a full version you can just change controller type in the project settings and map physical IO to the buffered IO and your are done.

Thi way you can start writing your code now in the fre version.

 

[Skiroy]

Thankx guys for everything. As far as the MCR I usually accomplished this programming idea by using a dummy bit B3:0/1 as the Interlocking start/stop rung's output. The use the B3:0/1 as a normally open input on every rung in the program. Is this acceptable to do to accomplish the same thing being done with the MCR in the PLC-2 program I posted?

What technique can U use to accomplished the ZCL command with IM still fuzzy as to what its purpose is in the program and how to accomplish this?


Lastly, Can some explain how the timers are being done in the program. I have some theories but nothing solid yet.

Thankx