FactoryTalktotheHand
Member
Here's my situation: I have a customer that we've been building panels for for many years. They're a molten metal furnace manufacturer. Up until recently, we've just been building their panels. They gave us the schematics and purchased all the parts. The last few projects, we've started to transition to us ordering the parts and doing their schematics. The goal being to have a neater, more standardized schematic print (theirs weren't so great). Also, having us ordering the parts is easier because if something gets ordered wrong, that's one less channel the fix has to go through.
This past week, I had to help fix an issue they were having with their High Limit controller. We deviated on the design because the old controller was a Honeywell and the lead time was way too long for the project. Instead, I ordered a Watlow FM Approved High Limit Controller. I installed it on a pair of panels and shipped them to the customer.
Long story short, the customer complained because these new High Limit Controllers didn't "auto reset" like the old Honeywell did. After doing some looking, I was told by Watlow that FM Approved High-Limit controllers cannot have an automatic reset per FM code. I looked into it some more to find that the Honeywell controller they were using for the High Limit control was NOT a High Limit Controller at all, but a PID controller they had set up to turn off if the temperature surpassed the setpoint and back on if it dipped below.
I explained to my contact that they had never been using proper High Limit Controllers, and that in the future we should switch to FM approved controllers and have a manual reset. He seemed confused by this and was adamant that what they were doing was okay because they've been doing it the same way for many years. I bristle at this line of reasoning (just because you've been doing something wrong for 30 years doesn't automatically grandfather it in to being right), and tried to convince him to change. There was no arguing with him. He decided to have us order on the next panels PID controllers to use as High Limit Controllers. He also insisted that the temperature going too high does not pose a threat to personnel, and that it only protects the furnace itself.
I'm really at a loss, here. I'm not an FM expert. I don't know if High Limit Controllers are always required in that application, or if they have to be FM approved for Hi limit, or what. I'm kind of upset at him because my customer as the furnace builder should be the one telling ME what the FM rules are, not the other way around. The dilemma I'm having is that now that we are doing the prints, and ordering the parts, I feel this puts us at risk if FM ever comes down on this manufacturer. I made sure to use their title block on the drawings, but I'm sure that won't be enough. My contact did verbally tell me that they would accept responsibility for FM compliance, so I definitely will want to get that in writing before we order anything.
But so far the only thing I can think of to word it something along the lines of "we are knowingly violating FM regulations on our design because we just plain don't feel like doing it the right way." I don't want to hand that to them, but they're not giving me any tangible reason to deviate from what I perceive is the standard other than "we've always done it that way."
Is anybody here more familiar with FM that can shed some light on this situation?
This past week, I had to help fix an issue they were having with their High Limit controller. We deviated on the design because the old controller was a Honeywell and the lead time was way too long for the project. Instead, I ordered a Watlow FM Approved High Limit Controller. I installed it on a pair of panels and shipped them to the customer.
Long story short, the customer complained because these new High Limit Controllers didn't "auto reset" like the old Honeywell did. After doing some looking, I was told by Watlow that FM Approved High-Limit controllers cannot have an automatic reset per FM code. I looked into it some more to find that the Honeywell controller they were using for the High Limit control was NOT a High Limit Controller at all, but a PID controller they had set up to turn off if the temperature surpassed the setpoint and back on if it dipped below.
I explained to my contact that they had never been using proper High Limit Controllers, and that in the future we should switch to FM approved controllers and have a manual reset. He seemed confused by this and was adamant that what they were doing was okay because they've been doing it the same way for many years. I bristle at this line of reasoning (just because you've been doing something wrong for 30 years doesn't automatically grandfather it in to being right), and tried to convince him to change. There was no arguing with him. He decided to have us order on the next panels PID controllers to use as High Limit Controllers. He also insisted that the temperature going too high does not pose a threat to personnel, and that it only protects the furnace itself.
I'm really at a loss, here. I'm not an FM expert. I don't know if High Limit Controllers are always required in that application, or if they have to be FM approved for Hi limit, or what. I'm kind of upset at him because my customer as the furnace builder should be the one telling ME what the FM rules are, not the other way around. The dilemma I'm having is that now that we are doing the prints, and ordering the parts, I feel this puts us at risk if FM ever comes down on this manufacturer. I made sure to use their title block on the drawings, but I'm sure that won't be enough. My contact did verbally tell me that they would accept responsibility for FM compliance, so I definitely will want to get that in writing before we order anything.
But so far the only thing I can think of to word it something along the lines of "we are knowingly violating FM regulations on our design because we just plain don't feel like doing it the right way." I don't want to hand that to them, but they're not giving me any tangible reason to deviate from what I perceive is the standard other than "we've always done it that way."
Is anybody here more familiar with FM that can shed some light on this situation?
