Posts have peaked my curiosity...

[rpoet]

I work in the entertainment industry, and design and build special effects. I'm the only one at my shop who does the electrical and panel design / layout, and the only one who programs PLC's and HMI's. I pretty much have free reign to pick and spec any parts I want to use, as long as thy work; that's the bottom line for my boss.

We're a UL 508A panel shop now too, so things just got a lot more complicated, but most industrial controls stuff is already listed or recognized. There are some panel designs that we've been building for years that we'll never be able to sticker though; they're LED lighting control panels for theatrical effects, and the controllers don't have the blessing from the UL overlords. The controller manufacturer has informed that they're not interested in getting them listed either, so no stickers for them.

Many of our projects are insanely last minute, so I don't always get to bring in new hardware to test and R&D, and I have to use solutions I know will work. Upside is that the guys who build the panels (when it's not me) are more comfortable with wiring known components, but I still wish we had more opportunity to try new things more often.

If you want freedom to design and build, build stuff for the entertainment industry. Most clients are happy with a functional project that is on time, on budget, and reliable. Craftsmanship counts for a lot.

Some of the bigger players (Disney, Universal Studios) have a cookbook of acceptable parts that someone dreamed up 20+ years ago. They used to be very ridged on those specs, but are coming around to the use of alternative parts. $$$ is king, and even they realize that there are often better solutions at cheaper prices these days than a SLC PLC that someone pasted into a mess of a spec 25 years ago.

I throw a lot of money at AutomationDirect for instance. They're prices are good, pretty much always have stuff in stock, and I don't have to speak to a product rep for a quote every time I need a terminal block or fuse holder. With my project lead times, buying stuff at 9pm with a credit card makes things easier. Other favorite vendors include Allied Electronics, Mouser, and even Amazon. As long as I don't need to talk to someone to get my parts, I'm happier (insert grumpy old man comment here).

So long as you can meet the client's (crazy) deadlines and still deliver a good product, they will like you and keep coming back; it's not always about the cheapest price either. Entertainment companies will always plead poverty but even after doing this for years, I'm still slightly staggered at the amount of money they are willing throw around. Between materials, labor, and markup, TV studios, theme park gigs, and Broadway shows cost millions. It's a nice sandbox in which to play.


-rpoet

 

[Jeev]

I work in the entertainment industry, and design and build special effects. I'm the only one at my shop who does the electrical and panel design / layout, and the only one who programs PLC's and HMI's. I pretty much have free reign to pick and spec any parts I want to use, as long as thy work; that's the bottom line for my boss.

This man is living the dream. I've always wondered about exactly the sort of design, control, and engineering goes into a Cirque Du Soleil show, for example.

I am in the packaging industry. We supply mainly end of line machinery/conveying to the food, beverage, and pharmaceutical industries, as well as begun to do RPC and plastic pallet handling over the years.

 

[RussB]

Many of the posts in this forum leave me curious/jealous of the position that many of you apparently hold. I currently work for a general contractor that specializes in Water/Waste Water. Every job I get in this industry has a spec, usually 3-6 inches thick defining by part number every PLC, Module, Device, Instrument, labeling, interlocks, control description and AOI's/DFB's (code examples). The only input I have is panel layout, power requirements, fusing, thermo-management and sometimes code structure. In my factory life (airbags), every process had an SOP, Control Description, O&M's, standardized AOI's/DFB's.

I would like to know what industry(s) I have been overlooking that gives you all the freedom that I see in the posts. I would love to win a contract that gives me the ability to insist that I use an AB drive with an AB PLC or to design and build production equipment as the controls engineer, choosing my preferred parts and developing my own control description.

Others have answered your question. Here is a comment:
Your prospective 'customers' are lucky that you are not in control as anyone who would specify only one manufacturer can't be certain of giving them the "best" system for their money.
YMMV

 

[BobB]

I work for myself. I choose what I want to use. I choose the jobs I want to do. I reject the jobs I do not want to do. I rejected work from Cirque Du Soleil a long time ago. I would never fit into a company environment again - too independent. Only have one boss - she who must be obeyed. I find it quite funny when I walk out of meetings with large companies and tell them to find someone else when they go on with a lot of c**p. No time for that. They usually come and ask me to do the job on my terms. Not always though - oh well!

 

[rpoet]

This man is living the dream. I've always wondered about exactly the sort of design, control, and engineering goes into a Cirque Du Soleil show, for example.

I am in the packaging industry. We supply mainly end of line machinery/conveying to the food, beverage, and pharmaceutical industries, as well as begun to do RPC and plastic pallet handling over the years.

I worked for Cirque for a while, actually, back in 2007-2008. I was part of the Automation Dept at Zaia, Cirque's first permanent show in Asia; it was in Macau, in the Venetian Hotel. Sadly, the show closed a few years ago due to poor box office numbers.

Zaia was all Siemens gear. If memory serves, Sinamics drives, Step7 PLC's, and almost everything was servo motor. The only induction motors we had were on our scenery lifts. The biggest one was driven by (4) cross-coupled 50Hp motors. It had a turntable, and could lift 40,000 lbs, plus its own (considerable) weight. Far and away the largest motors I've worked with, to date.

On the other hand, I just finished a project with a tiny 25W three-phase motor (drew less than 1/4A at full load), (14) pneumatics axes, and a pair of NEMA34 stepper motors, so motor size is all over the place. There'll be a 1kW Schneider "smart" servo motor grafted into this thing some time this fall too, due to a change order from the artistic folks. They just need to time it with the week that the show will be dark.

It almost always something interesting and new. Basically, everything we build is a prototype.


-rpoet

 

[John Morris]

Hi Trent

I work for a small OEM, one electrician (me), two assemblers, three welders, one parts/machine, and three engineers.
We make cleaning machines/processes for the Oil/gas, military, aerospace industries. These are pretty much for the most part one'offs. Everyone of them.

You tell us how big it is and how you want it washed, we design, build, and turnkey install. Belgium one day Israel the next, then back to Canada for commissioning, home by the weekend.

Unless the customer calls out the PLC or any particular item as preferred, then it's up to me to create the electrical BOM so as to meet the customers expectations and keep cost down.

With in the expectations of the company standard, I have complete domain over electrical, electronic, programming, and over all functioning of the machine.

So if you want this experience find yourself a small niche market OEM and call the ball.

I hope you find it.

Good luck

 

[geniusintraining]

Don't like restrictions? Stay away from oil & gas.

or aerospace!

Or nuclear power... but the peach industry is wide open

 

[mk42]

I worked for Cirque for a while, actually, back in 2007-2008. I was part of the Automation Dept at Zaia, Cirque's first permanent show in Asia; it was in Macau, in the Venetian Hotel. Sadly, the show closed a few years ago due to poor box office numbers.

Zaia was all Siemens gear. If memory serves, Sinamics drives, Step7 PLC's, and almost everything was servo motor. The only induction motors we had were on our scenery lifts. The biggest one was driven by (4) cross-coupled 50Hp motors. It had a turntable, and could lift 40,000 lbs, plus its own (considerable) weight. Far and away the largest motors I've worked with, to date.

I got a backstage tour of one of the cirque shows in Vegas, which was awesome. I had no idea how much automation went into them, but it certainly makes sense. The stage had to lift up off the ground and then move around, and I have no idea how they'd do that without safety rated drives and motion control.

 

[trentg@felixconstruc]

Thank you all for the responses! I, like others here, never gave the entertainment industry much thought but that sounds like an awesome gig. I guess I am just as guilty as some clients in regards to underestimating the reach and capabilities of the controls industry.

 

[rpoet]

I got a backstage tour of one of the cirque shows in Vegas, which was awesome. I had no idea how much automation went into them, but it certainly makes sense. The stage had to lift up off the ground and then move around, and I have no idea how they'd do that without safety rated drives and motion control.

This sounds like the stage for Ka. Am I right? The lift and tilt are done with hydraulics. The lift cylinders are some of the largest ever built, or so I was told. Rotation is handled by a gigantic motor-driven crane bearing. There's an entire room dedicated to the pumps and accumulators and apparently, when the stage is moving at full-tilt-boogie, the hydraulic fluid whistles as it goes through the lines.

Cirque is very safety-conscious. All the cylinders have spring applied brakes that will slam into place if a hydraulic line ruptures or an overspeed condition is detected. All motor brakes have a secondary as well. The engineering that went into the Ka stage is astonishing.


-rpoet

 

[rpoet]

Thank you all for the responses! I, like others here, never gave the entertainment industry much thought but that sounds like an awesome gig. I guess I am just as guilty as some clients in regards to underestimating the reach and capabilities of the controls industry.

My industry has co-opted industrial controls components to move scenery and people. After all, the motors don't really care what they're moving. I I will say though that a Broadway set moving on its own probably looks prettier (and smells better) than waste water treatment.


-rpoet

 

[mk42]

This sounds like the stage for Ka. Am I right? The lift and tilt are done with hydraulics. The lift cylinders are some of the largest ever built, or so I was told. Rotation is handled by a gigantic motor-driven crane bearing. There's an entire room dedicated to the pumps and accumulators and apparently, when the stage is moving at full-tilt-boogie, the hydraulic fluid whistles as it goes through the lines.

Cirque is very safety-conscious. All the cylinders have spring applied brakes that will slam into place if a hydraulic line ruptures or an overspeed condition is detected. All motor brakes have a secondary as well. The engineering that went into the Ka stage is astonishing.


-rpoet

I couldn't recall which one off the top of my head when I was posting, but that sounds like the one. They definitely gave the brag about the biggest lift cylinders, and I believe them.

The show, later on, was also pretty sweet

 

[DwSoFt]

Don't like restrictions? Stay away from oil & gas.

I Have found that Oil and gas is hit and miss, big players are crazy. But little ones with old ****. They are not strict at all.

 

[AGill]

I Have found that Oil and gas is hit and miss, big players are crazy. But little ones with old ****. They are not strict at all.

It's the big players for me. Major shock coming from manufacturing after 20yrs.

 

[harryting]

This man is living the dream. I've always wondered about exactly the sort of design, control, and engineering goes into a Cirque Du Soleil show, for example.

I am in the packaging industry. We supply mainly end of line machinery/conveying to the food, beverage, and pharmaceutical industries, as well as begun to do RPC and plastic pallet handling over the years.

I remember seeing a Cirque Soleil ad for a PLC programmer years ago. Requires moving to Vegas so it was out of question for me.

Most water project involves working for local government entities which loves to put out specs.