Quoting a job at new customer.

[Mark Buskell]

I am going to look at some equipment Monday and decide the best way to automate it. It fairly simple, hot and cold water coming in, raise water temp to setpoint (setpoints from operator display), after reaching setpoint, divert valve from drain and fill tank to (x) # of gallons thru flow meter.

My question is not about automating it but about what tips to look for in a plant you have never been to. I have been advised to look around and check how much other automation that may already have. If they already have a bunch of other automation, they make be more inclined to more bells and whistles and better equipment (higher quote = higher profits). If they are manually doing everything, you may want to keep it very simple and not scare them with the quote price.

This is some type of food plant and the reason we are quoting it is that a salesman recommended us. There is not much others details yet. I guess he will want to use the parts he reps (GE controls, not AB, Redline display) . The salesman will be with me also.

I also realize that this may be a good chance to get our feet in the door here. We are also a small company and cannot afford to lose much money like some larger companies due on new customers.

What other things do you look for when sizing up a new customer?

 

[RRobbins]

I usually look at the project, ask the customer what he expects when completed. Does he want training? Would he like to be involved during the process? If he is excited about learning something new and has had NO automation experience, I raise the price. It will take about 40% longer to do the project with his help. You can usually tell how receptive they will be by looking around. There may some "pull through" business, if you show the customer you know what you are doing and are not just a "pogrammer". At some time during the initial visit, I will ask if the project money has been approved, if he is getting pricing for approval, etc If he has gotten money approved, how much does he expect your part to cost. They will usually tell you about 50 - 85% of what they have available. If in doubt, quote him time and materials, plus expenses. If you get a good "read" tell him up front you will not "burn" him and would rather give up some of your time, to make him look good. After all, it's his neck on the line and he is the one who will look good or bad, to his management. Ask him to give you a scope of the project and a written "process" for you to follow.

 

[shooter]

do not try to be cheap.
ask the chief to tell you what he wants.
ask the operator to have a look, and ask him to exactly tell you what he does.write down every handling he does and also all checks he does.
from this you can easily write a proposal.
Give them 1 high price, and when the job was faster done give them discount afterwards, this way they will cooperate with you.

 

[Tom Jenkins]

Look closely at how the plant is maintained, and how well run it seems to be. Many people expect automation to make up for bad operating procedures, lousy maintenance, or inept operators. Of course it can't. If the place looks like hell, the staff seems to be a couple of fries short of a happy meal, or nobody really understands the system, then your project, no matter how well designed or concieved, will fail.

Look at any automation they have already, and see if the equipment you want to use can match what they already have.

Look at any SCADA or HMI systems they have, and find out their interest in immediately or eventually tying your system in to that - it can affect your equipment selection.

 

[Pierre]

The very first to get a feel for is how smart or dumb you client is. I have waisted to much time with dumb people and the money was never there. On the other hand when a manager is smart, wether he knows automation or not is irrelevant he is there to call the shot on your proposal to the best of his judgement. A smart guy usually make smart calls.

Then you must check to see if the money is there.

Then you must make your judgement on the level of technologie this plant is.

The very last thing to check is the technical aspect of this possible job. Hey, if you could not do it you probably would not have been asked to quote on it.

Young man listen to this.

ASK WHAT YOU WANT .

You would like to know what budget he has. ASK !
You would like to know if there operators are happy about this.ASK !
You would like a copy of there electrical drawings. ASK !

 

[Mark Buskell]

Quote

I am compiling myself a checklist of things to look for based on the suggestions here. So far this is my list.

Check with operator on currect operating procedure.
What other checks might the operator do?
Consider firm quote vrs. time and material.
Copy of electrical or other drawings.
Check what other controls they may already use in plant.
Get written process of procedure.
Is the money approved for this project?
What timetable for installation?
Get existing part #'s.
Will there be a future Scada or other network tie-in?
Are operators happy about automation change?

Thanks for all of the valuable info so far.

 

[stevez]

From the other side

Mark hi,
My answer is coming from the customer's side and not your side.
The things I want to know about a contractor are as follows :

- do you have experience with similar projects ? -have examples ready .

- are you going to supply me with full documentation at the end of the project (program and diagrams)

- is the program documented and clear so that my maintenance guys can troubleshoot or make minor changes in -- years time ?

- at what stage do we declare that the system is runing properly and you have finished your job ?

Another important question -does your customer have a URS (User Requirments Specifications).This defines what the customer wants from the system and should be your guidline for the project.


Good luck,
steve

 

[Rube]

Give them two quotes if you have the time. The first would be a no frills, inexpensive-but-gets-the-job-done system and the second would be a high powered (high profit) choice with bells and whistles. Keep your componentry similar to what they already have with both choices, but tell them of any "better" components that could also be used. We give our managers both options and nearly always we sell them on the better system. It becomes their choice and makes you look good too.

 

[Pierre]

Give them two quotes if you have the time. The first would be a no frills, inexpensive-but-gets-the-job-done system and the second would be a high powered (high profit) choice with bells and whistles...

Sorry Rube but I tend to somewhat disagree with your suggestion.

A companie just cannot be an "inexpensive-but-gets-the-job-done" type of companie and at the same time the oposite.

After having established a confidence level with a client you can go into "cheaper" stuff but not on the first date

 

[Mylo]

I Have to disaggree Pierre, My company have never issued just one qoutation to receive purchase orders !! It is very common that we may issue many quotations as the specification develops regardless of General specifications. THe customer requirments vary quite a lot with initail discussions, as because the customer is effectifly the end user he is not aware sometimes of the "products" out their , in this changing industry there is new ways every day to manufacture. Generally at initial quotation, we will issue "2" x effective quotations , the first being the basic system (Enough to do the job) the second we don't issue as a seperate quotation per say We tend to issue costs on "Options" or upgrades". THis usually is for such items as Automated unload if not present in basic system, upgraded HMi system etcetc,

As the job is specified it generally grows from a basic system, and it is always beneficial to work with the customer to help him grow his final requirments!!

 

[Pierre]

My experience is that the End-user usually is not all that familiar with the finer details of automation. He knows what he wants but the way to accomplish this is a black box to him.

A 10K system is worth 10K and the same system built for 20K will have features worth 20K. Does the 10K do the job. Yes, but not has good has the 20K one.

With a higher valued system you will have features wich simplifies a lot of things.

The usual question of "Why can't it do that?" preceeds the answer "Because you choose the 10K" system. I don't have to do this because I would have installed the 20K system first.

After we know each other and have established a respectfull relation then I will go into "saving" him some money on systems of lower "plus-values". Because he, the End-user, trusts my selection and because my selection is based on a better knowledge of his operations.

First time customers, I won't jeopardize my work and reputation with a riskyer, lower priced system.

Rube has to decide. Its a business decision.

One system I am working on was quoted with 5 distinct quotes. From 35K to 75K. We selected the 75K system. But this customer I know from 5 years.

 

[Rube]

Pierre

Both systems I would qoute would do the job and do it correctly. On the lower priced system I might not bid in the biggest baddest HMI or program as many "nice-to-haves" as I would a larger system. I might not have as many VFDs or "condition" lights; any thing that might not really be necessary to do the job. It would not be wise to give any customer a system you will constantly have to tinker with, although if he orders a no-frills system he should realize further enhancements will cost him.

Go buy a new car or truck. You get to pick what you want but do you really need power windows?

Giving the customer the freedom to choose how his system will be built does not have to alter the fact that it works correctly. It will let him know that you have given him options, and maybe that can mean more business in the future.