Software Training reimbursement

[jthomes]

I agree that 1500 would break me as well right now. But 1500 to a different company could be chump change. All I am saying, the training could help you in the future. If they are asking for a year, that is not so bad. Maybe if you talk to them about your concerns, they will prorate it. If you do find a different job and they won't help out, you don't have to take it. If the money is that good at a different job, it may still be worth it. That choice none of us can answer except you. It just happens that I have a similar dilemma. I am a firm believer in all the training I can get.

As far as the union thing, I've lost a couple union jobs because of seniority. One was by a week. I agree that seniority should play a part in determining who should stay or go, but so should work ethic. I was doing three times the output got walked right out the door. I have also seen a group union themselves out of a job by demanding more each time. I think that under the right leadership a union can be good, however in my area the leadership turns to greed and it was and is the actual workers that are suffering and losing jobs.

 

[djbillyd007]

What I would do. Is go by what I thought the training would be worth in another position. If the earnings I thought I could get from another employer were high enough to cover the cost of the training than I would do it. The most the current employer could get from you, on the way out the door, would be your last paycheck. Then, they would send you letters ect.. this all takes time and would allow you to come up with the money. I know this sounds a little on the dirty side. But, If you are actually being under paid and this is just a way to help keep you that way than sorry about there luck. In my opinion get every bit of training you can. Even though some classes I have been sent to seamed crazy @ the time. I always ended up with something I could use even if it was later.

 

[elevmike]

The request is not unusual. It's also an obivious probe into your thoughts on looking for a new job. By declining you've made it obivious that they need to replace you ASAP. Either quit now or sign the agreement and suck it up when you do quit.

 

[zmanvortex]

I don't think that it indicates that I am job hunting. What it does indicate is that I am not happy with my current salary and that my options are open.

It simply indicates that if a better opportunity presents itself that I would not hesistate on leaving.

We have been looking for a person to supplement my job, both as a backup and to ease the work load on me. We have had several applicants but the company would not meet their salary requirements. They have since stopped running the ad and it will be interesting to see if they start running it again.

Either way I am standing my ground. I don't know about you guys but I am not able to foresee the future and I am not going to gamble with it.

What if my brother were injured in an automobile accident and I decided to move to help care for him. Then I am stuck paying back the training. No thank you.

 

[elevmike]

What if my brother were injured in an automobile accident and I decided to move to help care for him. Then I am stuck paying back the training. No thank you.

What if What if... I get hit by a bus crossing the street on the way to get ice cream? Tell your brother to wear his seatbelt and not to DYI...

All your employer wants is to be comfortable making the investment. Whether or not you realize it, you just ran up the red flag. If you dont plan on leaving then tell him so, and then tell them your concerns. Being a mid-sized company they might alter the agreement some.

 

[zmanvortex]

I am not an idiot and I do realize what my denying to sign the agreement indicates.

It has already been established that I am not happy with my salary. I know, I know, why do I stick around then. There are not many positions in this area that require the skill set that I have, this is one reason they are able to pay the lower salaries.

Believe it or not I am very proud of the job that I do. I do enjoy the challenges and I do work very hard.

With that said it seems to me that instead of making me sign an agreement to protect their investment they would pay the salary that I require.

Now I know that this is not a salary thread, so I will stop there.

Once again I will stand my ground on my descision and I appreciate the opinions of my peers. Any other feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[elevmike]

Once again I will stand my ground on my descision and I appreciate the opinions of my peers. Any other feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

What...are we only soliciting feedback to validate your decision?

More unsolicited avdice:

Dont play the part of the antagonist in your relationship with your employer..

Ask the employer to pro-rate the agreement over the term (1 year). After 3 months you pay 3/4, after 6 months 1/2, after 9 months 1/4...Meet somewhere in the middle. Negotiate..

 

[zmanvortex]

Geez elevmike, I thought I was stressed. I think you need a beer.

You know I think I am starting to realize that no one can really give a correct opinion unless all of the facts of my case were known.

I guess it would not be fair unless you heard my employer's side of it either.

I also think that maybe deep down I am hoping they say that they have to let me go, then I might find out if the grass is greener on the other side.

Even if the next field is 2 hours away.

 

[jthomes]

ElevMike is right. No one is saying you're an idiot. If anyone is it's me for staying where I'm at right now. I just think, in my opinion, that someone shouldn't pass up free training. I don't know if I'll be here in 3 weeks, 3 years, or 3 decades. I need to better myself in every way possible and if someone else wants to pay for it, great. I see where your company is coming from, as well as your point. Like I said earlier, I'm in the same type spot. If you're looking to make a stand against your company on a principle, good luck. Start with your boss and work up from there after you gain his understanding and support. A lot of companies are doing this because we have a unique talent that other companies want. They are just trying to make the investment worth it. If they train you then you leave, they have to pay to train someone else. It doesn't make good business sense to keep that up.

Now I just went back and re read the last post so everything I put above looks like a rant. Sorry, I'm really not trying to. I do hate to see others stuck in the same position as me. I also know that you are just a number to them come layoff time. As soon as I understood that, it got a little easier to leave a company if needed. The final decision is up to you. If you want the training and it will help you, I would suggest taking it. If you are worried about the future, maybe start putting a little back each check just in case something comes up and you have to leave. Maybe even try to negotiate a raise if you take the training.



By the way, I need a Beer or scotch or 'shine as well. It has been a long day.

 

[zmanvortex]

Thanks jthomes.

Maybe Mondays are not the best day for these types of threads.

 

[jthomes]

With this job, Fridays probably aren't either. If I find a loophole, I'll let you know.

 

[Terry Woods]

Could you possibly stand staying there for the next year at the same wages?

If so, I think the requirement is not too ridiculous. It really sounds kind of reasonable... at least from the employer's side.

However, after having gone through the class (with a respectable Grade), you have every right to expect that they will compensate you for your higher level of expertise!

At the very least, I would expect quaranteed employment for the next year, since that is the limit that they invoked, and a raise of X% after completing the class, then an additional Y% after 6-months, and then an additional Z% after a year.

In all of that time, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO WALK!!!

Be VERY reasonable in your X%,Y%,and Z% requirements!

The employer should be willing to give those raises based on YOUR performance! That means, YOU have to follow through!

Here is the really tough one to evaluate...
If you are truely performing and they fire you, then all obligations are off!

If you are NOT willing to walk... you are stuck.
However, after a year, you are a "Free-Agent"!

I think this is a reasonable plan, as long as YOU are reasonable in your counter-demands (i.e., the periodic raises). And of course, you do indeed need to merit those raises!

Hmmm... what if YOU go "cold"?

That is... what if you develop a hate for the company, or at least, it's not fun any more... and you simply back-off on what you could do...

That is a wrench...

YOU KNOW, in your heart of hearts, if that is the case! And if you continue doing so, you can only expect to be fired, and then you can only expect to be obligated to the debt!

So... can you tolerate them for a year? Can you do your best, and maybe better, in that year?

These are questions that can only be answered by your heart of hearts (i.e., down in your guts).

 

[elevmike]

Geez elevmike, I thought I was stressed. I think you need a beer.

I prefer brunettes, or blondes, or even redheads, but not usually beer...as booze seems to numb the senses so you cant really enjoy (or at least remember enjoying) the company of the more tender gender..

zmanvortex,

Your young, I can tell due to the fact that a meer year seems an eternity to you. Well when you get to my age hours are counted in days, days are counted in weeks,...and years counted in decades. Remember that when your changing diapers, because it wont be long till when your riding in the car to the Right of your now potty trained but now mouthy subject..

A year is nothing. Take the training, get the expireance, & put it on your resume. BTW, Let me know if Autocad has a spell checker..

 

[Steve Bailey]

Personally, I don't think the request is reasonable. If the company spends $1500 to train zmanvortex, what's reasonable about requiring him to pay for the right to accept another job within the next year? If they spent $3000 to train hin on ControlLogix, should they expect him to hang around for two years? If that ControlLogix training is in addition to the AutoCAD training are the sentences consecutive, meaning he's under the penalty clause for three years?

Training your employees is one of the costs of staying in business. You either train them or you will eventually go out of business. Since you don't have one of those nifty flashlights that the Men in Black have, you also have to live with the fact that the employee can take that knowledge with him when he leaves. That's one of the risks involved in staying in business. You can choose either the carrot approach or the stick approach to protecting your investment in training. In the carrot approach, you reward the employee for the increased productivity that results from the training. In the stick approach you threaten the employee with dire consequences if he has the audacity to capitalize on his increased value in the free market, a market that the employer is equally free to participate in. How many people have you hired that somebody else paid to train?

Which type of employer would you rather work for? Which type of employer would you rather be?

 

[S7Guy]

I have to agree with Steve. Training is just a cost of doing buisness, like paying the light bill and plowing snow in the parking lot. No one like to pay for it, but what is the alternative? I think it's kind of cheesy to ask someone to sign a contract to stay for a year for training that amounts to .75 an hour.

Back when I was an employee, I took as much employer-funded training as possible (a lot more than $1500 worth) and I eventually left. The company didn't feel slighted, and wished me well. It's just one of those things, and all companies have to expect a certain turnover.