Suitable sensor for nuts counting packaging machine

[10BaseT.]

Dear all,


It's nuts use with bolts, not peanuts

Ah the joys of posting all of the necessary info in the OP !

"Fork Handles Sir ?" - " no , I said four candles "

 

[flyers]

Singapore_Mats: Currently the system is using weight, customer wants more accurate system running on counting piece per piece, not weight.

bwana_88: Thanks for your information.

10BaseT.: Our nuts (goes with bolts) only have one color, silver grey. not the peanut type.

Kataeb: The structure has yet to be design, we are looking for the suitable sensor first.

JesperMP: No other reason, basically for packaging purpose only, so each and every pack of nuts will have the same amount (number not weight). Each pack is 5000 pcs.

bernie_carlton: Customer will run the same diameter at a time only. No mixing of diameter.


Referring to the idea purposed by "kolyur" i think this is a good idea. Customer can run any size of nuts within the sensing range and no adjustment is required. Any comment?

 

[Singapore_Mats]

just curious, you want "more accurate system", and each pack
is 5000pc. So how many are there today in each pack using weight?

4990-5010 ?
4950 - 5050 ?

 

[Rich1955]

Like most bowl feeders of this type the product never has a space between parts and when you are trying to count if you don't see the parts right at the end of the feeder you allways get more than you want. They usualy put a stop on the end of the feeder to stop the parts from flowing after you get the disered count. One thing you might want to look at is slowing up the vibration when you are getting close to count. How much time do you have to fill each bag is a key to finding an eye or camera to count pieces.

 

[CroCop]

Only way this will be possible is if you have a forced stop feeder, if you shut the vibrator off, parts will still come out.

 

[Eric Nelson]

The picture looks nice but it won't work that way.

Rich is right. Sensor manufacturers often show examples with 'ideal' conditions that never exist in the real world...

One idea to provide separation might be to add a short section of (continuously running) conveyor after the bowl exit. With the conveyor running faster than the screws exit the bowl, it will produce a gap between screws.



-Eric

 

[Singapore_Mats]

When I buy a carton of beer, I expect there to be 24 cans. When I buy sparkplugs, I expekt there to be 4, 6 or 8 sparkplugs.

When I buy a box of nails, and the labels say '1000pc'. I dont
expect it to be 1000pc, 998 or 1008, I dont care. Do you?

I solve the thread-starters problem by suggesting they change the label on the nut-pack from '1000pc' to 'Aprox. 1000pc' !

 

[Rich1955]

Sorry Eric I took that part out. I did not think it sound right.

 

[Kataeb]

in this case, you can also use an inductive sensor (very cheap).

"In English, there is one word for everything!"

 

[bwana_88]

Here is the demonstration of the application
http://www.balluff.ca/NR/exeres/EB7CAFDF-B457-420C-8B92-1F286E5D9FDC,frameless.htm?Application=Die%20protection
Hope this works for you.Thank you.

 

[flyers]

Singapore Mats: I got your point, but this customer is looking for a solution to have a more accurate system for the packaging line. I think thye just have budget to spend

Rich1955: I think using the counting is slower than using weight system. You get your point as well, vibrator bowl will still dropping the nuts when we stop it due to momentum, so i think the best is to install the curtain beam type sensor nearest to the output of the vibrator bowl. Another precaution is to slow down the vibrator bowl when near the setpoint count as you mentioned.

CroCop: Force stop vibrator means, when we shut off the vibrator it'll come to complete stop imediately?

Eric: If we can design a vibrator bowl which can produce a gap, we do not need the short length conveyor anymore, right? My concern is when putting a conveyor after the vibrator bowl and when we stop the vibrator & conveyor (when parts reached), the conveyor can be stopped imediately, but the vibrator bowl will still dropping parts on to the conveyor, thus a few nuts will be located on the same spot on the conveyor (coz` conveyor already stop). Do you see this problem?

Kataeb: Yes, inductive sensor can be use also, but the sensing range is shorter than this fiber sensor (30mm (w) x 1300mm (l) - Omron E32-T16WR).

bwana_88: The concept same as the picture I posted, I think the sensor you are referring is another type. I think the different of the sensor you are referring to and the one I'm posting in the picture (curtain beam fiber type) is the curtain type is more flexible and can cope with any size within the wide range of sensing area. Besides that it's also high speed (250mirco seconds).

 

[Tharon]

Hmmm.

Just a thought, but is the increase in production cost of these nuts due to longer packaging time and overhread on the design upgrades worth the more accurate count numbers?

Is a few cents (or more?) more per nut really worth not being off by 50 count in a 5000 piece bag?

Of course... I could be wrong in my guesses of how much more time this would add (but it seems like it would be a lot more time).

 

[RussB]

Like most bowl feeders of this type the product never has a space between parts ...

If this were true you could count holes.

 

[ndzied1]

Here is another sensor that could work for you:

http://www.balluff.ca/Balluff/us/ProductsChannel/Product+Detail/en/ProductDetail.htm?ProductID=BES+IKV-045.23-G-Z-S4&ProductGroupGuid={2819EA2D-E949-4DDD-85C9-7C62D96C7594}&ProductGroupName=Inductive%20Sensors

 

[Rich1955]

Our you stuck on the bowl feeder because there is a different way for speed and counting if the pieces don't vary in a few grams of being the same. Some of your high end net weighers can be set to piece count. I used Yamato scales this way to count pieces of candy in a bag before and find only a veration of only 1 to 2 pieces (2 lb) and at 30 bags a minute. How much does 5000 pieces weigh.