Toshiba EX100 Programming Access Help

[jrwb4gbm]

CONGRATULATIONS! Just a few more suggestions. I would try to field test your setup with everything the same but with the internal jumper (from 12+ terminal to 5+ point on circuit board) that you added for bypassing the two resistors removed. If this works, this would allow an out of the BnB box solution. I am going to split portions of your original .pdf file and re-post here on this website for additional reference.

 

[Byron]

CONGRATULATIONS! Just a few more suggestions. I would try to field test your setup with everything the same but with the internal jumper (from 12+ terminal to 5+ point on circuit board) that you added for bypassing the two resistors removed. If this works, this would allow an out of the BnB box solution. I am going to split portions of your original .pdf file and re-post here on this website for additional reference.

I'm thinking about ordering another spare 232CL9R. If I do I can give it a try. Depending on the current in the circuit it seems like the 300 Ohms total of R15 and R16 (150 Ohms each) would cut the 5VDC down to about 2.04 or so... what do you think? ...based on the 12VDC in and the 5VDC allegedly available to the rest of the board, as per the BnB schematic.

I got back from the service call. All went well so far. They have NO drawings at all so I am going to create some documentation and go back Monday for live troubleshooting on this particular product they are going to run. I'll use your advice you gave Dale Roe for printing the ladder to a text file. It would be nice to be able to annotate the program.

 

[Byron]

EX10*MPI21 Programming Questions

Greetings... here are two text boxes pasted in from the attached PDF I uploaded which contains the Ladder Logic from the program on the machine I am working on which is the Toshiba EX-100, namely- EX10-MPU11A CPU; the usual inputs and outputs and this mystery module which is a PULSE INPUT module fed by a Red Lion Encoder- Model: ZNH1200H

When the HOA is in AUTO, the rotary knife is adjusted to cut the pad on the mark by two photo eyes which input a digital signal when the mark is sensed by the first sensor and then the second sensor. They are about 12" apart on the feed line. In addition there is an encoder signal input to a Toshiba MPI21 (Module-Pulse-Input-21). The data below: " [IN [2 ] XW02 ] - [ XW03 W - >W D0000] " and elsewhere in the ladder is related to this. It is taking the PE-1 and PE-2 digital signals and looking at the data from the encoder at a certain moment to determine when to move the knife pilot motor which speeds up or slows down the gear box for the rotary knife
SEE PAGE 7 FOR MORE EXPLANATION AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS...

Here is where the rotary knife is made to speed up or slow down in order to stay within the two black marks on the paper. The rotary knife is driven by a large motor - gear - box unit, and there is a very small pilot motor which moves the gears for faster or slower speed. Output Y010 and Y011 below in Network 7, rungs 01 through 06 are the relay outputs which control a Minarik D.C. Drive Card via control terminals for Forward and Reverse.

The problem: in Auto, the knife cuts are drifting and not staying on the mark, so they have to put the system in "HAND" and use the pushbuttons for "+KNIFE" and "-KNIFE" shown on rungs 3 and 6 below. Prior to being called in on this, the encoder was replaced by someone else. I am going to look at the connections and the possibility of "homing", as well as look at the signals going to the MPI21 with a Fluke ScopeMeter.

I am asking for any other ideas and advice.... and I am endeavouring to understand the EXPDD software symbols for the MPI21, for example- what exactly does this mean in plain English: "[IN [2 ] XW02 ] - [ XW03 W - >W D0000]" and similar terms in regard to reading and manipulating the numbers coming in from the encoder ?

 

[Byron]

In case someone says, "...why don't you get the book by Ed Dropka?" I ordered one from Amazon and it is not here yet. Can't find a complete E-BOOK or PDF version online at all! I know He is / was the genius (so I hear anyway) on the old Toshiba PLC's.

 

[Byron]

Banner R55 Expert Sensors

The sensors are new and are working fine

 

[Byron]

Smallest video I could upload... 91.7 mB
http://cstservices.net/toshiba/IVEXPAD_002.mp4

 

[danatomega]

It is not the same processor as the one you have, but there appear to be some similarities - may help to clear up some of those mystery instructions
http://www.electricalmanuals.net/files/PLC/TOSHIBA/PROSEC/T-SERIES/UM-TS02E-E001.pdf

 

[Byron]

Update

Generic Picture of pads showing logo drift due to cut missing the mark.

 

[Byron]

Update: Rotary Knife Missing the Mark

I uploaded a PDF which explains a little more of the problem. I am hoping for a little more technical support from Toshiba... even though it is an obsolete PLC.

If anyone here wants to share a lightbulb moment, please do ...
(regardless of when... even 10 years from now... it might help someone)

 

[jrwb4gbm]

@Byron,
I have seen this exact problem years ago. More info is needed. Is the material feed motor mechanically connected to the rotary knife in any way or is the rotary knife on an independent drive? Is the material feed at a constant speed always? What is the purpose of the encoder? Is it used to change the magnitude of the correction? Why are they using two photoeyes for the registration marks ? I really think a narrated video on youtube or somewhere will help show how you are trying to make it work. Is there a sensor that is on the knife to let you know when the cutter is in position?
I know this is a lot of questions but I'm not there to see the machine in action. Work with me and we'll get to the solution.

Edit:
I really think the encoder and data manipulation is an unnecessary complication, there are easier ways to get this job done.

 

[Byron]

Ivexpad machine

Greetings jrwb4gbm ! Thanks for the reply. I've attached the program in a zipped archive. The ladder is in PDF format on this same thread... and I attached the only documentation I could find for the EX10*MPI21 module.

 

[Byron]

Rotary Knife - some more details...

1. Is the material feed motor mechanically connected to the rotary knife in any way or is the rotary knife on an independent drive?
Answer: the rotary knife is connected to an old gear box driven motor which has a chain driven small pilot motor for changing the speed, which is driven by a small Minerik DC Drive, which is digitally controlled via a PLC relay output.

2. Is the material feed at a constant speed always? No.

3. What is the purpose of the encoder? The encoder somehow plays a role, I was hoping someone could help me decipher the code. The PDF file is annotated. I believe there is a picture of the rack too here on this thread.

4. Is it used to change the magnitude of the correction? I'm not sure...

5. Why are they using two photoeyes for the registration marks ? As I understand it, PE-1 and PE-2 tell the PLC program when the registration mark is within the range for adjustment. They are labeled in the PDF ladder.

6. I really think a narrated video on youtube or somewhere will help show how you are trying to make it work. I started to do that but they have issues with "Industrial Espionage"... I got warned today...

7. Is there a sensor that is on the knife to let you know when the cutter is in position? Not that I'm aware of.

Instead of trying real hard to understand the program I made the mistake of trying to track down the authors... the defunct IVEX PACKAGING. So far it is a dead end. IVEX PACKAGING in Visalia, CA died due to an Alcoa / Reynolds take over circa 2001; Grants Pass, IL and Monteno, IL ... no answers yet.

Now I am trying to understand what I am looking at in the program and I am limited by having to do a lot in my office without being connected to the PLC.

I've gotta sign off for the night. I DO Appreciate the tips and encouragement. I'll do my best to get some clearer answers.

 

[jrwb4gbm]

In plain English I "think" the [ IN [2] XW02 ]-[XW03 W->W D0000 ] statement means "take the encoder card register XW02 and subtract it from the encoder card register XW03 and compare it for greater than the Word in PLC/CPU register D0000. If it is greater, then that whole block between the 1st and last bracket becomes "True/On".

What type of motors are used for the material feed and knife motors, for example, AC or DC and if AC are they a fixed speed or are VFD drives varying the RPM? It also appears that possibly the encoder was changed to one with a different PPR value. If so, this would affect the gain or amount of change.
More later.

Edit:
At first glance, in Timers T124 and T125, the "50" value might be able to be changed to affect the gain or amount of change. I might be wrong there so be careful and remember the current values for fallback.

 

[jrwb4gbm]

I might have stated the order of subtraction backward in my last post. I think it should be XW03 is subtracted from XW02.

 

[Byron]

I PM'd you...
In regard to when I got the chain moving in both directions only about .25" ... then I said I suspect a bad card. Well the movement happened after the electrician reversed the polarity on the encoder terminations to the MPI21, but again just a little movement... BUT IT WAS SOMETHING! At that point is when I wanted to verify or investigate what I called "DWELL" ... in my head just thinking that maybe the Banner Sensors needed adjusted for dwell? The PLC program should be the same as it has been for the last 5 years. The only suspects I can see are the sensors, encoder, PLC pulse input card... I just thought of something... the DC DRIVE CARD. The PLC turns on an output for FORWARD and another one for REVERSE. The speed is determined by a POTENTIOMETER mounted inside the panel. No one touches it... hmmm... instead of .25" it might have moved more if the speed was increased.