Using 6200 series software (PLC5/250 - AB)

[Ktulu]

Hello evrybody,

I have somme questions for you =)

First, I have installed the PLC5/250 Programming Software (Allen Bradley - Rockwell - 6200 series).
It's an hold software, running on DOS, where you can progam your PLC with Ladder or SFC.

The project file are separated: Comment & Symbols AND Logic. The file extension of the logic part is .A52

1) I would like to export the project to an ASCII file (for exemple: XIC I:002/01 OTL O:OO2/01). I have read on documentation that it is possible but i can't. I can just export Comment & Symbols and documentation with Ladder program, cross ref ... That is not what I want ...

2) I'm searching too how i can know which Input or which Output is affect on which IO card. In fact, I have 4 RIO card (remote IO) with 10 RediPanel. I can't see RIO card in the software... then i can't know which input or output are associated to this RIO card, or this ...

I'm asking myself if I can put this program on the RSLogix5 program, but i can't with the .A52 extension. Can I convert ?

Finally, sorry for my poor English...

I hope you can give me the solution!

Thank you a lot,

Friendly,

Nicolas.

 

[Bob A.]

Nicolas,

Your are stirring up old memories. I have the software that you are describing, sitting here on the shelf and oddly enough, I was just wondering yesterday, where I could install it, because I have a job coming up where I will probably need it.

Anyway, when you stated your objective, you said you wanted to export the project. If that means that you want a text file to look like the printed ladder logic page, you can send the report to a file rather than the printer. Obviously, you can also print the file later as well. If I remember correctly, you can do that on the screen wherein the report must be configured to look the way that you want it. Also, there are a number of things that can be done to customize the way the report will appear on the page, that is done by sending config. strings (escape sequences) to the printer.

If I understand your second question, regarding how you can figure out how the I/O is related to the addresses, that requires that you understand the addressing scheme in use within the system. This is a bit complex to try to type, but I'll try to give you a sense of it. To simplify the job, I am going to use two terms that are tossed around sometimes interchangably. In this case, they will be distinctly different. I will refer to the hardware where the I/O modules are mounted as a "chassis" and the corrosponding I/O Image Tables described in software within the PLC as "racks".

Now let's consider three cases. In the beginning, lets assume that I/O hardware modules had 8 functions in the chassis. And so there were Image Tables created in the PLC that were broken up into racks. Since there is an Image Table for Inputs and another for Outputs, eight 16 bit registers were grouped in each of these two Image Tables and these bits could be setup to be a rack. The first of the eight registers was dedicated to the first pair (left side) of the chassis (Group 0). This would continue across a 16 slot chassis, to include Group 0 - Group 7. This is Octal numbering (No 8s or 9s) and this scheme was called "Two Slot Addressing" because each register in the Image Table serviced two slots in the chassis. Note that since there was a 16 bit register, you could have two 8 bit modules in a group, and still have sufficient Image Table capacity.

Now lets move ahead a few years and now 16 bit modules come around. This situation puts some strain on the availibility of Image Table Addresses. We could keep Two Slot Addressing, but now you must have only one Input and one Output in each group so that you don't run out of addresses in one Image Table or the other. The chassis resolves this on it's own thankfully. But an option is available wherein the processor can be configured for One Slot Addressing and the concept of a group goes away. Actually, each slot becomes a group and now, instead of a 16 slot chassis being one rack in the processor, it now requires only an 8 slot chassis.

Both of these situations are commonly used but let's consider one more possibility which is less fun, called "Half Slot Addressing". This is required for the less common 32 bit I/O modules. Here it takes two Image Table words per slot and therefore a rack in the processor requires only a 4 slot chassis.

Now you can look at the Processor Status Screen, and there is a status bit that tells which addressing mode is in use. Also, if you understand what I am telling you here, you can examine the system documentation and usually pick up enough clues to figure out which is being employeed.

Once that is done, you can look at the addresses in the program and decode them as follows. The first character is I (In) or (O) Out. The next two are the rack and group followed by / and then the contact number in octal. The right slot in a group is 00-07 and the left slot is 10-17.

All of this is described in the available documentation and you should seek it out if you are going to try to be proficient at this work. I can tell you that I worked on these systems for long time before I could teach the addressing schemes to others.

I have not used 6200 PLC 5/250 for about 10 years but I will try to help if you have specific questions.

Best Regards,

Bob A.

 

[chavak]

6200 program can be imported into RSLogix 5. But do not understand why you have a .A52.

If my memories are correct in 6200 you have about 7 or 8 files for each program. Maybe you want to zip it and post it here. Somebody can help you to convert it to RSlogix 5.

 

[Oakley]

The PLC 5/250 is not a PLC5 as we know it. It is called a Pyramid Integrator. It is a beastly device and weighs as much as a boat anchor.


I replaced my last one about 5 years ago. 1200 IO points spread across 7 chassis (14 Racks). We replaced the processor with a ControlLogix unit and kept the IO. Now we are embarking on replacing the IO.

Sorry, not much help with using the software - it has been archived and I no longer have access to it. But if you were to do a cost analysis on the hardware replacement (5 years ago, a processor replacement would have cost $40,000) vs replacing with new hardware, you may be money and time ahead. 6200 software is no longer supported or produced. Who knows how much longer you will be able to run it on modern computer OS's.

 

[Gerry]

If I understand correctly, Nicolas' system has 4 RIO scanners. Each one will have a thumbwheel switch set to 0,1,2,3 (or is it 1-4?). The I/O addresses would include the thumbwheel number - e.g. 1I:001/13 (or similar - it's been a long time).

I can't recall if there was an ASCII export option in that s/w - there might have been an export to .X5 option which was similar.

 

[OZEE]

There's not an ascii export available for anything except the comments and symbols, as ktulu has already discovered.

The program cannot be nicely converted to a PLC5. It's somewhat unfortunate that AB named these two families of PLCs the same -- the PLC5 and the PLC5/250 (Pyramid Integrator) are barely related. The entire infrastructure of the Pyramid is entirely different than the PLC5 -- really, the only similarity between the two is that they both use 1771 I/O.

6200 program can be imported into RSLogix 5. But do not understand why you have a .A52.

If my memories are correct in 6200 you have about 7 or 8 files for each program. Maybe you want to zip it and post it here. Somebody can help you to convert it to RSlogix 5.

The reason why he has a .A52 is because it's a PLC5/250. It has nothing to do with it being a 6200 program, and it's not easily converted to PLC5. Yes, 6200 programs can be imported into Logix, but you have to stay within the same family of PLC. Just as you cannot import a 6200 PLC2 program into RSLogix 5, you cannot import a 6200 PLC5/250 program into RSLogix 5.

1) I would like to export the project to an ASCII file (for exemple: XIC I:002/01 OTL O:OO2/01). I have read on documentation that it is possible but i can't. I can just export Comment & Symbols and documentation with Ladder program, cross ref ... That is not what I want ...

To do this, what you'll want to do is to print the program to a text file. It's not an export, but it has everything you're asking for. Just change the destination from LPT to FILE: and follow the prompts.

2) I'm searching too how i can know which Input or which Output is affect on which IO card. In fact, I have 4 RIO card (remote IO) with 10 RediPanel. I can't see RIO card in the software... then i can't know which input or output are associated to this RIO card, or this ...

Like everybody else here, it's been several years since I've been through this exercise, but those assignments should be in the hardware configuration part of the program.

Ktulu, it is time to be replacing that PLC! They have been out of support for, what, 15+ years!! Parts are not available anymore. As Oakley indicated, IF you can find replacement parts, they may very well be more expensive than replacing the whole system with modern components.

AB has in the past had a program that would convert a Pyramid program to ControlLogix. I don't know that they still have it available -- in my opinion, if they still do, they shouldn't!! The conversion is NOT good. At best it converted 75% and you have to do an incredible amount of work fixing the things that do not convert. Even converting it to a PLC5 may not be easy, depending on all of the things being done in your Pyramid program.

Converting it can be done primarily in one of two ways.

The first is to print out the program and start doing an instruction-for-instruction conversion, fixing stuff as you go. This method converts any existing problems that already exist in the program, plus it introduces a whole new host of problems related to the conversion itself.

The second is to just start over. Modern control technology has evolved to give us many, many new tools. There are standard options available in programming that we never dreamed possible possible 25 years ago when your Pyramid was installed. Doing this gives you the opportunity to ask what you really need your process to become -- Can you perhaps fix some existing problems? Can you perhaps improve the process itself to reduce cycle time or improve throughput, thus giving some economic benefit to changing the processor, apart from the obsolesence issues?

 

[Gerry]

It's somewhat unfortunate that AB named these two families of PLCs the same -- the PLC5 and the PLC5/250 (Pyramid Integrator) are barely related. The entire infrastructure of the Pyramid is entirely different than the PLC5 -- really, the only similarity between the two is that they both use 1771 I/O.

In some respects, it's closer to a PLC-3. The people designing it wanted to call it PLC-6, but marketing had a better idea.
I think it wasn't officially a Pyramid Integrator until you plugged in the microVax.
There was tremendous hoopla and excitement surrounding the launch, but that was short-lived and went into steady decline.

 

[Ktulu]

Hello Guys,

I'm impressed about these responses, but i have not understand all of them.. - English is not my maternal language -

Well, the PLC is in fact a Pyramid Integrator ;-)
I trust you when you say that's a very old PLC, i'm just 20 lol.

Oakley & OZEE : my job is to migrate this old PLC to a new 5000 (handwriting). Actually, the PI (Pyramid Integrator) talk with a 5000 via DH+. I have to migrate the program and the IO step by step to the 5000, because I can stop the client's machine only 4 hours per week... (600 I/O)
Then, the next step is to connect the RediPanel (10) in the 5000 (which are actually connected via RIO in the PI) and create a "dialog table" beetween the 2 PLC.
For doing this, i must know the adressing...

There's not an ascii export available for anything except the comments and symbols, as ktulu has already discovered.

Thank you, i can stop searching this lol!

To do this, what you'll want to do is to print the program to a text file. It's not an export, but it has everything you're asking for.

Yes I have already do this, it's called "Reports" and my program is in ladder rung, not litteral.
But it's not important, for replacing all my RediPanel's I/O by my dialogue table, i'll do a simple search & replace.

This is the export option of the software:

If I understand correctly, Nicolas' system has 4 RIO scanners. Each one will have a thumbwheel switch set to 0,1,2,3 (or is it 1-4?). The I/O addresses would include the thumbwheel number - e.g. 1I:001/13 (or similar - it's been a long time).

I have 4 RIO Scanners, and 2 channels in each RIO Scanner.

6200 program can be imported into RSLogix 5. But do not understand why you have a .A52.

This is the files composing my project:




Bob A., i don't really understand your post because I'm not the best in english, I've understand the conductor wire of your post, but not the details, but thanks for responding to me and if I have specific question, I won't hesitate.



Finally, the most important things is to know the adressing of my RIO RediPanel. Can you say me how (Gerry have tryed ) ?

Thank you a lot guys,

Best Regards

Nicolas

 

[Oakley]

Wow! Another PLC5/250 (Pyramid Integrator) to ControlLogix conversion project.


Be forewarned, unless you are an expert (considered to have extensive knowledge) on both platforms, you will have a steep learning curve and will make many mistakes.

I am sure that many people (myself included) would be more than willing to help you as you go - if you ask questions and learn.

 

[kdburns]

PLC5/250 conversion

Check out http://www.**************.com they will be able to convert your PLC5/250 program into ControlLogix.