Why does Siemens have to be such a *****?

[Wilso]

Our programs were written by Koch. They're a disaster. One was so bad, and so impossible to follow, that they actually spent $50000 to get it completely re-written (by another firm).Safety PLC was installed and programmed "on the run", because it wasn't part of the original machine. I once checked an input card a random, and found 8 of the 10 wires connected to it were incorrectly numbered. There's literally hundreds of errors in the drawings. I can deal with issues as far as keeping the machine going, because I'm there every day, and have come to know it really well. But it's very hard for the shift guys, if they get a call to something complex at night or on the weekend.

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

First, I have felt the OP's pain.

I think Tom is mostly right. In some ways I think Tom gives Siemens way too much credit. Some of Siemens stuff looks like more of a kludge or add on than thought through. More of a bad design than trying to push something on somebody. The architecture of the S7-300 for instance and not having an easy way to do indirect addressing in LAD is a design flaw. What where they thinking? The S7-300 Ethernet was awful until ProfiNet but that comes at the price of a stack that is as big as all the other protocols put together. Fortunately memory is cheap now.

Look at the percentage of forum posts about different products. There are too many on indirect addressing with the S7-300. That is a sure indicator of a design and or documentation flaw.

 

[Manglemender]

I've been using the Siemens gear for 30 years and would say I know it fairly well. There are some very week points in some of their offerings - especially Simotion and the resource requirements. We always speculated that Siemens developed their software on a super computer and then expected users to run it on a PC.

Recently I've been trying to specify some RA kit for a current project and I have to say that I find it frustrating and complex in the same way that RA people find Siemens.

Nick

 

[rootboy]

As the old joke goes:

In heaven, the Brits are the police, the French are the cooks, and the Germans are the mechanics.

In hell, the Brits are the cooks, the French are the mechanics, and the Germans are the police.

I'm of the opinion that we can expand the last part to: "and the Germans are the software developers" (although the Schneider stuff could be beyond terrible too, half of the time we couldn't get our own software working).

 

[seppoalanen]

I don't believe this. I just ran the Distributed safety installation again. This time it took about 30 seconds. Did a save and compile, it updated something in the blocks, and now all sweet. Which brings me back to my original question. Why does Siemens have to be such a b!tch?

Maybe engineering tools installation is as photograph developing and depends of OS/registry systems.
We must install it 2 times and reboot OS 2 times, then, it is fixed.
Ps. I wonder why AB's engineering needs so many tools as rxlinx, kepware, rsnetworks for dn, et, cn etc. and separate licenses for each.

 

[Wilso]

Maybe engineering tools installation is as photograph developing and depends of OS/registry systems.
We must install it 2 times and reboot OS 2 times, then, it is fixed.
Ps. I wonder why AB's engineering needs so many tools as rxlinx, kepware, rsnetworks for dn, et, cn etc. and separate licenses for each.

The licence requirements are frustrating. Separate licences for Simatic manager, WinCC flex, Distributed safety (and I'm sure there are others). Our licences are not completely "kosher", but they're the right price.

 

[Wilso]

I did find another interesting quirk while getting this set up. This is a machine with a group sign on. In order to install the software, I had to sign on with my own username, as I have access to the engineering servers where all our software is stored. I did all the installation using my personal username. All of it then worked under the group sign on. But the second distributed safety installation, I had to do twice. Once for myself, and once for the group sign on.
We've got no issues with giving access to the capabilities to too many people. The PC is in a locked switch room, and on back shifts, the electricians are too scared to do anything. None of them would even consider doing anything to the Safety PLC that required the use of the password when it's prompted. (I have multiple backups anyway).

 

[JesperMP]

Our licences are not completely "kosher", but they're the right price.

Are you saying what I think you are saying ?

 

[JRW]

Yep
That's what he is saying
These are copied licenses ie stolen

 

[Wilso]

I call one of the engineers, and he installs the licence. That's all I know.

 

[iant]

I know that AB can be installed on a server
Wouldn't Siemens have that ability.
I don't think the license would be that easily copied.

 

[Stuntman]

Tom hit the nail on the head. I can usually wing it with any AB software I start using and get by if I have to. Siemens is very rigid when dealing with hardware revisions, service packs, service pack updates etc. I use alot of siemens products because certain customers specify it and because I can usually beat my competitors on pricing if need be. Most integrators are AB fans. I like AB but every integrator that I know specs them as their preferred controllers and VFDs. As a newer small integrator I feel going the opposite direction of everyone else and investing in Siemens gives me good niche.

 

[PLC]

Wow
And all this started from a guy who didn't install the software properly
See post 27

 

[JesperMP]

Siemens is very rigid when dealing with hardware revisions, service packs, service pack updates etc.

One can criticise Siemens software for a lot, but for exactly this I find Siemens relatively relaxed, as long as we talk STEP7 'classic' and not TIA.
Within the same software revision, you get servicepacks and hotfixes for free.
The hardware catalog has to 'know' the hardware in question, but the programming software revision and firmware of the hardware does not have to by 'in sync'.
If you have an older STEP7, you can often just chose the latest firmware version available to you, and it will run fine even if your hardware has a newer firmware version.
For the HMIs, you may have to make an OS Update, but it doesnt cost you anything, and nowadays WinCC Flexible does it automatically for you.

 

[Manglemender]

Most integrators are AB fans.

I'm not certain that is correct, maybe in the US but not necessarily everywhere else.

Nick