Wire Covers

[RussB]

You know this thread has gotten me to think.
Why in the world can't we just tell people what is expected of them and if they fall short there are consequences?
Maybe I'm just a dinosaur but back when I was running the maintenance shop if someone failed to perform to expectations they either missed a raise, promotion or if they didn't change were replaced.
Nothing difficult about it, guess I'm glad I got out of that "baby sitting" job when I did or I may have been asked to leave.

Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack this....

 

[Andy6]

We have problem with men not putting wire covers back on the wire way inside control panels and things are a mess.

The boss has asked me to send an email on this issue.What are the reasons for putting wire covers back on other than it looks neat and it's the right thing to do.

I would think keep wires from being snagged and pulled loose inadvertently but what else?

The only reason your boss needs "Because I'm the boss and I said so"

If your guys are too lazy to take an extra 5 minutes to put the wire covers back, you either have the wrong guys, or have some terrible morale in your shop.

 

[OkiePC]

Tim, you are faced with a very common problem. If I had a nickel for every missing panduit cover...

In the past, I have tried to lead by example, and it helps a little bit. I agree with whoever said the boss (maybe that is you?) should be the one sending the email.

When faced with this type of problem, I had better luck by working along side (or observing) the person and being insistent about their work quality. One on one, look them in the eye and shame them. 1/3 of them will do the right thing once that happens.

Halfassed-manship is rampant, because everyone is pushed to hurry up and get production going. This "standing over them and shaming them" helps a little bit more than having them see you do it right. And you might be seen as a jerk, but most will respect it, especially if you say what you need to say and then drop it. "I want you to leave this panel better than you found it. Your panels look like [insert appropriate term here]. Where is your pride?" Make them think you believe they own that work. Those machines are theirs and a reflection of them as a person.

The email may help too, because then the boss can say "hey, we told you...now your raise is 0%". This is why the email needs to contain consequences and therefore needs to come from someone with authority to execute those consequences.

I agree with pointing out the safety concerns too, and make that the paramount concern, with loss of production being second.

I used to think I needed to be nice and polite and that I would win folks over to my way of doing things with polite notes and recommendations, but later found out that someone needs to be a hard case and let them know what the deal is. You will be ignored unless you are in charge of their pay, evaluations, or something affecting their paycheck or work life.

If you have a situation in which they get evaluated for uptime, start doing audits and lock their stuff out and fix it as a consequence. Then they get "charged" by being at the bottom of the "weekly numbers".

A wise boss once explained to me that the top 10% will go above and beyond all the time, no matter what you do or say. Leave them alone, outside from the occasional pat on the back. The bottom 10% will work very hard to avoid work. Ride them like mules. The 80% in the middle will stay in the middle, so the best management style involves getting rid of or motivating that bottom 10% which naturally pushes the middle group upward. How you do that is entirely situational.

Good luck...

 

[dploof23]

You know this thread has gotten me to think.
Why in the world can't we just tell people what is expected of them and if they fall short there are consequences?
Maybe I'm just a dinosaur but back when I was running the maintenance shop if someone failed to perform to expectations they either missed a raise, promotion or if they didn't change were replaced.
Nothing difficult about it, guess I'm glad I got out of that "baby sitting" job when I did or I may have been asked to leave.

Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack this....

I agree totally.
Where I am at we are lacking in the consequence department. One remedy I have found to be foolproof is placing a padlock on the panels.

It is a beautiful thing to unlock a panel and open it up to find it untouched since inception. You can almost hear the choir rejoice in the background and it seems a ray of sunshine beams down at that very moment...

I digress....


Dave

 

[geniusintraining]

Why are they removing the covers? At my facility, the covers are almost always removed because of poor or non-existent drawings.

And bad or no wire markers/numbers..

For me it just makes a better working environment, I hate opening a panel and seeing a mess, but this maybe because I enjoy building them

I also do not like people writing on the Panduit covers because of people removing them

 

[IrishElectrician]

Someware in the NEC is a loop hole that says "all work shall be done in a neat workman like mannner" They may have rephrased the word workMAN. But that should cover it.

110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work. Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.
Informational Note:  Accepted industry practices are described in ANSI/NECA 1-2010, Standard Practice of Good Workmanship in Electrical Construction, and other ANSI-approved installation standards.
(A) Unused Openings. Unused openings, other than those intended for the operation of equipment, those intended for mounting purposes, or those permitted as part of the design for listed equipment, shall be closed to afford protection substantially equivalent to the wall of the equipment. Where metallic plugs or plates are used with nonmetallic enclosures, they shall be recessed at least 6 mm (¼ in.) from the outer surface of the enclosure.

 

[allscott]

You mean what would you do about maintenance crew if you control panels looked like this?

I would have given my eye teeth over the last two days to be working in panels that looked as neat and well organized as that one. Trying to trace a simple 24V start signal going from one part of a machine to another.

God I hate this place.

 

[Timbert]

To make it easier to reinstall the covers when I build a panel with wire duct I place a few rubber-bands on the hooks to keep the wires in place. Works good and costs about 2 bucks

I've tried that with less than stellar results. Within a couple of months every single rubber band had deteriorated and just made a mess.

 

[dploof23]

I've tried that with less than stellar results. Within a couple of months every single rubber band had deteriorated and just made a mess.

Same here, I just stick to an occasional zip tie when things get squirrely during wiring.

Dave

 

[Doug-P]

I've tried that with less than stellar results. Within a couple of months every single rubber band had deteriorated and just made a mess.

These are nice: http://www.uline.com/BL_6496/Velcro-Cable-Ties . Plus, you can remove them after the cover is on. They have 101 other uses too - third hand, for instance.

 

[OkiePC]

My favorite trick is to use short lengths of 1/4" PVC tubing snapped between the fingers of the wire duct. I received a panel that still had a few of those left in place. I was so impressed, I left them there. They are cost free scraps if you use the stuff anywhere in you plant. The covers fit right over them, and they are insulators, so unlikely to ever cause any trouble.

I like the velcro cable ties for my PLC cables along with the big zipper bags to keep them organized.

 

[JesperMP]

You can get wire retainers to install inside the wire ducts, see page 3 in this catalog:
http://www.hagerelectro.com.au/files/download/0/1447_1/0/1314Cat_Hager_Web_9Trnkng.pdf

If the brand of wire ducting has them of course.

 

[shooter]

when making a panel i use small pieces of the cover and put them in place special on the corners. when it gets crowded i use a tye wrap to keep them.
we in europe tend to put all extra wire in to this plastic, so when designing keep much much room, to get the cable into the panduit.