Wow, the Prez speaks
- Thread starter danw
- Start date
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Boaaaard!
As a natural-born cynic, I feel qualified to make a post. I've seen a lot of junky equipment come down the pike in my time - AGVs come to mind - and some good stuff too. I can see where some would consider Mr. Granby's post to be advertising but I don't.
The first thing he did was answer the question, somewhat of a rarity on the web. I've seen more than a few replies, both here and on other fora, which take the form of: "Why would you use XXXX? Only the horribly misguided or incurably stupid would do it that way! What you need is YYYY, and here's how it's done".
In simplest terms, the information sought was given and then slightly expanded on by noting that the product was obsolete but a current version is available. That's advertising?
Finally, years ago we bought two Red Lion Controls encoder/counter modules (Gemini 1000) to solve a conveyor tracking problem. The product is well made, the manual is clearly written and has ample drawings, diagrams, and figures for the uninitiated/unfamiliar. The product was installed, set up and has run without trouble and unattended ever since. It just works.
[/rant]
As a natural-born cynic, I feel qualified to make a post. I've seen a lot of junky equipment come down the pike in my time - AGVs come to mind - and some good stuff too. I can see where some would consider Mr. Granby's post to be advertising but I don't.
The first thing he did was answer the question, somewhat of a rarity on the web. I've seen more than a few replies, both here and on other fora, which take the form of: "Why would you use XXXX? Only the horribly misguided or incurably stupid would do it that way! What you need is YYYY, and here's how it's done".
In simplest terms, the information sought was given and then slightly expanded on by noting that the product was obsolete but a current version is available. That's advertising?
Finally, years ago we bought two Red Lion Controls encoder/counter modules (Gemini 1000) to solve a conveyor tracking problem. The product is well made, the manual is clearly written and has ample drawings, diagrams, and figures for the uninitiated/unfamiliar. The product was installed, set up and has run without trouble and unattended ever since. It just works.
[/rant]
Stephen Luft
Lifetime Supporting Member
Ken,
I wouldn't worry too much about this thread being out of control. It is offering some much needed debate regarding manufacturers posting on this site.
If you want to talk about two threads out of control, then look at
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=21229
Which started off as someone's displeasure and has gone off into various directions, including NASCAR and Abraham Lincoln.
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showth...?t=20167&page=1
Which started off as a question by someone looking for a circuit but didn't provide sufficient information. Where it is now, I really can't say. I read up to post 280 and it is certainly a thread that is out there!
Now, on to the matter at hand...the manner in which I end all correspondence.
Some may not like it. Some may be offended. Some are indifferent. Some are encouraged. I think that covers just about everyone.
To those who don't like it, why don't you like it?
To those who are offended, why are you offended?
To those who are indifferent, ask yourselves why are you indifferent.
To those that are encouraged, have no fear, in expressing what you believe.
And to provide some background for all...
Whether you believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, brought forth through God's chosen people a Messiah (anointed one) who's blood would be shed in death, and deemed a worth sacrifice for all of man kind, therefore providing a reconciliation to the creator of the universe, doesn't change the fact that it did happen and it is real.
God's truth is absolute, not subjective. Whether you choose to believe what your God did for you is your decision, but does not change the fact that it happened.
What good is God's love if he forces it upon us? He gave everyone free will and therefore the ability to make their own choice to decide if they want a personal relationship with the one and only God of the universe. (and yes, there is only ONE way - whether you choose to believe that or not, doesn't change the absolute fact of God's word.)
God chose a person - Abraham, who birthed a nation - Israel (Jewish people) who He would make all covenants with, who would bring forth His word (all authors of the Bible are Jewish) and would be the lineage that would bring forth the Messiah that was promised throughout scripture. The promise that was first made to the Jewish people, was also offered to the world (Gentile nations).
For the record, I am a Messianic Jewish believer who believes, without reservation, God's word to be absolute, and therefore I am not ashamed to display what I believe, either in person or on this forum.
I posed a question to those who don't believe, are indifferent or don't like what I say. Your issue isn't with me, it is with the God that formed you in your mother's womb and knew you before your were born. You need to ask yourself these questions.
If you choose not to believe, that is your choice. It is a choice that will have everlasting ramifications. The concept and premise are very simple; it is we who make it complicated. Sometimes knowing too much is a detriment to our own well being.
It is like a poll -
A) Yes I believe
B) No I don't believe
There is no choice C, it is that simple. You can create hundreds of reasons why you don't believe, however, there is only one reason to believe. That reason is absolute...He is who He says He is and does what He said He would do.
In response to Pierre, marketing is simply promoting something, so therefore, yes; I do promote my God (and by the way, your God too, if you were to believe in Him.) I receive no financial compensation for serving my God, simply joy (fyi: joy doesn't equal happiness), peace and eternal life. Not a bad return for a simple decision.
To those who say why would God allow all these bad things to happen? The answer is quite simple. We live in a fallen world. Sin has separated us from what we were intended to have. God did not promise us a perfect life, even when we believe.
When He was speaking to His disciples regarding His coming death, resurrection and second coming Jesus said:
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulations: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." John 16:33
Faith comes in believing. A strengthened faith comes in going through valleys of trials and tribulation, knowing that every promise in God's Word is true. Therefore when it is written:
"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as you have: for He has said, I will never leave you nor forsake you. So that we may boldly say, the Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me." Hebrews 13:5 - 6
Therefore, if anyone want's to continue to question my manner in how I end all correspondence, you may continue. Let it be known, that no one will convince me otherwise of God's truth.
The subject was presented in this thread, therefore, I responded.
God Bless,
or
In Yeshua's name, God Bless,
or
In Jesus' name, God Bless,
I wouldn't worry too much about this thread being out of control. It is offering some much needed debate regarding manufacturers posting on this site.
If you want to talk about two threads out of control, then look at
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=21229
Which started off as someone's displeasure and has gone off into various directions, including NASCAR and Abraham Lincoln.
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showth...?t=20167&page=1
Which started off as a question by someone looking for a circuit but didn't provide sufficient information. Where it is now, I really can't say. I read up to post 280 and it is certainly a thread that is out there!
Now, on to the matter at hand...the manner in which I end all correspondence.
Some may not like it. Some may be offended. Some are indifferent. Some are encouraged. I think that covers just about everyone.
To those who don't like it, why don't you like it?
To those who are offended, why are you offended?
To those who are indifferent, ask yourselves why are you indifferent.
To those that are encouraged, have no fear, in expressing what you believe.
And to provide some background for all...
Whether you believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, brought forth through God's chosen people a Messiah (anointed one) who's blood would be shed in death, and deemed a worth sacrifice for all of man kind, therefore providing a reconciliation to the creator of the universe, doesn't change the fact that it did happen and it is real.
God's truth is absolute, not subjective. Whether you choose to believe what your God did for you is your decision, but does not change the fact that it happened.
What good is God's love if he forces it upon us? He gave everyone free will and therefore the ability to make their own choice to decide if they want a personal relationship with the one and only God of the universe. (and yes, there is only ONE way - whether you choose to believe that or not, doesn't change the absolute fact of God's word.)
God chose a person - Abraham, who birthed a nation - Israel (Jewish people) who He would make all covenants with, who would bring forth His word (all authors of the Bible are Jewish) and would be the lineage that would bring forth the Messiah that was promised throughout scripture. The promise that was first made to the Jewish people, was also offered to the world (Gentile nations).
For the record, I am a Messianic Jewish believer who believes, without reservation, God's word to be absolute, and therefore I am not ashamed to display what I believe, either in person or on this forum.
I posed a question to those who don't believe, are indifferent or don't like what I say. Your issue isn't with me, it is with the God that formed you in your mother's womb and knew you before your were born. You need to ask yourself these questions.
If you choose not to believe, that is your choice. It is a choice that will have everlasting ramifications. The concept and premise are very simple; it is we who make it complicated. Sometimes knowing too much is a detriment to our own well being.
It is like a poll -
A) Yes I believe
B) No I don't believe
There is no choice C, it is that simple. You can create hundreds of reasons why you don't believe, however, there is only one reason to believe. That reason is absolute...He is who He says He is and does what He said He would do.
In response to Pierre, marketing is simply promoting something, so therefore, yes; I do promote my God (and by the way, your God too, if you were to believe in Him.) I receive no financial compensation for serving my God, simply joy (fyi: joy doesn't equal happiness), peace and eternal life. Not a bad return for a simple decision.
To those who say why would God allow all these bad things to happen? The answer is quite simple. We live in a fallen world. Sin has separated us from what we were intended to have. God did not promise us a perfect life, even when we believe.
When He was speaking to His disciples regarding His coming death, resurrection and second coming Jesus said:
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulations: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." John 16:33
Faith comes in believing. A strengthened faith comes in going through valleys of trials and tribulation, knowing that every promise in God's Word is true. Therefore when it is written:
"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as you have: for He has said, I will never leave you nor forsake you. So that we may boldly say, the Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me." Hebrews 13:5 - 6
Therefore, if anyone want's to continue to question my manner in how I end all correspondence, you may continue. Let it be known, that no one will convince me otherwise of God's truth.
The subject was presented in this thread, therefore, I responded.
God Bless,
or
In Yeshua's name, God Bless,
or
In Jesus' name, God Bless,
Well Stephen , you are entitled to your beliefs - and very honourable they are too .
For me , I am indifferent to your closure - you don't know me , I suspect that we have never met , and therefore am not sure how you are qualified to recommend to your God to bless me ? I might be of the opinion that I don't need or require blessing , I might not share the same God as you , the whole point is -you don't KNOW.
Please remember that while your personal views are your absolute business , and no one has the right to comment or deride them - you also don't have the right to inflict or impinge those views on anyone else . This website is dedicated to PLC's , not theological debate , and I personally happen to believe that religion and the discussion of religion has no place here - that doesn't mean however that we can't wish each other Xmas greetings or happy Hannukah or Ramadhan -
I think that your soapbox lecture is not required - as I said , I'll be the judge of my own beliefs and conduct , if I choose to adopt your system of beliefs , I'll come and request your council , it is as simple as that .
This forum should be a place where people are united by a common interest in automation , not divided by arguments over religion .
I trust I don't offend you - I don't intend to .
For me , I am indifferent to your closure - you don't know me , I suspect that we have never met , and therefore am not sure how you are qualified to recommend to your God to bless me ? I might be of the opinion that I don't need or require blessing , I might not share the same God as you , the whole point is -you don't KNOW.
Please remember that while your personal views are your absolute business , and no one has the right to comment or deride them - you also don't have the right to inflict or impinge those views on anyone else . This website is dedicated to PLC's , not theological debate , and I personally happen to believe that religion and the discussion of religion has no place here - that doesn't mean however that we can't wish each other Xmas greetings or happy Hannukah or Ramadhan -
I think that your soapbox lecture is not required - as I said , I'll be the judge of my own beliefs and conduct , if I choose to adopt your system of beliefs , I'll come and request your council , it is as simple as that .
This forum should be a place where people are united by a common interest in automation , not divided by arguments over religion .
I trust I don't offend you - I don't intend to .
Well, Stephen, now you've trodden on one of my sensitive spots!
The point is our frames of reference are different - there is no absolute. And as for your poll about believing or not believing, there is a 'C' option : there's nothing to believe in.
I was perefctly happy to have you signing off your messages with 'love and kisses from God': it didn't offend me and I put it down as a quirk of your personality. But don't dare start telling me you're right and I'm wrong when it comes to issues of faith. Surely the whole point of faith is belief in the absence of evidence. If there were evidence then you wouldn't need faith. Absolute? Absolute bollocks.
Regards
Ken
Nope. That's like telling me there's 10V potential between two wires. I get hold of every possible method of establishing this, and they all measure out as 0V - there's nothing there. And yet you still insist that the 10V exists. So I can only assume you've got a 10V bias in you're measuring circuit and I've got nothing. Or you've got nothing and I've got -10V.
The point is our frames of reference are different - there is no absolute. And as for your poll about believing or not believing, there is a 'C' option : there's nothing to believe in.
I was perefctly happy to have you signing off your messages with 'love and kisses from God': it didn't offend me and I put it down as a quirk of your personality. But don't dare start telling me you're right and I'm wrong when it comes to issues of faith. Surely the whole point of faith is belief in the absence of evidence. If there were evidence then you wouldn't need faith. Absolute? Absolute bollocks.
Regards
Ken
Rick Densing
Member
Ken M said:
So now you told him that he is wrong. I guess you're even.
TimWilborne
Lifetime Supporting Member
Think you guys could atleast steer this topic away from religion? That topic will definately keep people jumping on the train instead of off
geniusintraining
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator
TWControls said:
LOL, and that comes from the little devil himself
Its a good topic, just maybe not here, we all have our opinions and beliefs and when it comes to religion they are strong, I’m sure right now there is a war with people being killed over it.
Lets have a discussion about Nascar or hey! maybe PLC’s?
TimWilborne
Lifetime Supporting Member
PLCs would be something different than lately. Of course it is the weekend, could discuss ....
TimWilborne
Lifetime Supporting Member
You got a problem with my pic. We can argue about that
We should be tolerant of other's beliefs. I agree the topic of religion is inappropiate in this forum, but I hope I can get away with it in this thread.
The signoff is indeed part of someone's personality. If I signed off my posts with 'good luck', I doubt anyone would be offended even if they didn't believe in luck. The same should hold true with 'God bless'.
Ken's response to Stephen prompted me to post. The same subject was presented to me by a fellow engineer. He could't understand how I could have so much knowledge about science, and at the same believe in a supreme being as the origin of life.
Ken, thank you for your well written post. You hit the nail on the head when you said
The frame of reference for a Believer is more than just faith. I had a physical experience when I became 'Born Again'. For your 10 volt wire analogy, I see 0 volts on the meter the same as you, but when I touched the wires I got a shock.
The frame of reference can be clearly defined, and BOTH of them are based on faith. You believe in what you see, hear, and feel. So do I.
The difference is that I have felt God, and therefore declare his existance as an absolute. To convice me otherwise, you need to explain the cause of my perpetual delusional state. Many think Christians are just crazy. If God doesn't exist, then that can be the only explaination!
Ken, allow me to end this with a bit of kidding. Are you aware of the origin of "D--n it"? You are praying to God to condem the thing to Hades.
The signoff is indeed part of someone's personality. If I signed off my posts with 'good luck', I doubt anyone would be offended even if they didn't believe in luck. The same should hold true with 'God bless'.
Ken's response to Stephen prompted me to post. The same subject was presented to me by a fellow engineer. He could't understand how I could have so much knowledge about science, and at the same believe in a supreme being as the origin of life.
Ken, thank you for your well written post. You hit the nail on the head when you said
The frame of reference for a Believer is more than just faith. I had a physical experience when I became 'Born Again'. For your 10 volt wire analogy, I see 0 volts on the meter the same as you, but when I touched the wires I got a shock.
The frame of reference can be clearly defined, and BOTH of them are based on faith. You believe in what you see, hear, and feel. So do I.
The difference is that I have felt God, and therefore declare his existance as an absolute. To convice me otherwise, you need to explain the cause of my perpetual delusional state. Many think Christians are just crazy. If God doesn't exist, then that can be the only explaination!
Ken, allow me to end this with a bit of kidding. Are you aware of the origin of "D--n it"? You are praying to God to condem the thing to Hades.
Mickey
Lifetime Supporting Member
Maybe Stephen should use this to sign off instead,nobody would mind.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
Benjamin Franklin
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
Benjamin Franklin
Phaseangle
Member
Religion is the opium of the masses
There does appear to be concentration drug addicts in Iraq
There does appear to be concentration drug addicts in Iraq
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