Operator Interfaces

[Shawn Cassidy]

A note about the E-Terminals from Mitsubishi...
I've used them for several years now and they are one of the better HMI's on the market (in my opinion). However, I would suggest looking at the Cimrex (Beijers) rather than the E-Terminal because of the passthrough/transparent mode option. With the E-Terminals the transparent mode only works with Mits PLC's. With Cimrex it works with all (compatible) brands. Saves on the connecting and disconnecting of programming cables. Not a big deal but I think it's worth mentioning. I also had some problems with communications using an SLC5/04.... can't remember the details unfortunately. But it is a great software!

I work in quite a few plants and I've always wondered why a plant that has gone to the trouble of putting all the same brand of PLC and HMI's (AB, Omron, etc..) would all of a sudden start adding different brand equipment? It might be cheaper in the short term but I don't think it makes sense in the long term.

 

[Alan Case]

I agree with Shawn, why the desire to change. The initial cost of a screen is the smallest part of the factories investment.
A lot also depends on what AB processors you are running and which way the factory will be going in the future. If you are running or going to control logix then there is no way I would go with a third party HMI due to the fact that the new PV+ can direct reference the tags in the PLC without the need to create an additional HMI database.
Have a read on the abilities of factory talk
It really does depend what the bosses eventually want from the enterprise.

Regards Alan Case

 

[chakorules]

I tried Maplesystems once, one thing I didn't like was the screen angle wasn't that great. I also started to notice the screen getting dimmer and dimmer. I thought I was going crazy, then I ordered another duplicate Maplesystem for a duplicate job and we installed it next to each other at the customer plant. The new one was brighter than the old. Their life was only five months apart.
Here is my first Maplesystems application.

My MapleSystems Source Code

MapleSystems to a Allen Bradley Cheat Sheet

Getting your projects in and out of EasyBuilder

 

[LadderLogic]

Hmmm... How come no one mentions QuickPanels (TCP, now Xycom)?

 

[testsubject]

Hmmm... How come no one mentions QuickPanels (TCP, now Xycom)?

I always thought that the Total Control Panels were kind of pricy...

 

[Tim R]

Be very careful with Beijer.

I'm doing a large project with the Cimrex 69T and I found some interesting details.

1. There is no tag import. Programs with a large tag database might have a problem. (like I do)

2. Screen layouts are deceptivly easy to set up. Setting up some screen functions are a little cryptic though until you figure them out.

3. There is no offline runtime package. You need to download the program onto the terminal before checking your code. This might be a little annoying for first time users of this terminal. (like me)

4. Recipie handling is what sold me on this terminal. I can create 100's of recipies and store them on the screen flash memory and not have to write hundreds of lines of PLC code to accomodate changes in recipies.

5. The comm driver will accomodate DH-485. But getting the wiring straight requires some perserverence. I have yet to find anywhere the correct pin out for the cable from the SLC 5/03 to the Cimrex RS-485 port. I'm hoping Beijer can help me with that.

When I finish this project I will post my findings.

Else I forget, I've had problems with Maple systems in the past and have customers point to them and tell me not to use them.

The EZ touch is a good product. But lead times can sometimes get into the 4 week bucket. And it can be rather difficult to get tech support if you have a problem

TJR

 

[ndzied1]

Tim

In Cimrex Prog software go to the View menu then Namelist. There are import and export functions there. I usually select the comma separator as this seems to open in Excel easier.

Some runtime developement is possible but you have to switch to the DEMO driver and that has some limited capabilities.

(edit: You are correct, there is no offline runtime package. What I was refering to is a simulated controller called DEMO you can use to simulate memory location etc. but you do have to download to the Cimrex panel)

For your cable, check out this document: Link to Cimrex DH-485 Driver Manual It is spelled out on page 16. You can buy part number CAB10 or make it yourself.

What other functions are you having problems with?

Hope this helps,

 

[Tim R]

Hey cool! An import function. Why did the people at Beijer tell me there wasn't one?

Say hey to Farley for me.

TJR

 

[dash]

We have had good luck with the latest firmware (V3.1) and the PanelView Plus from A-B. I have used their DH+, ControlNet, EtherNet and 232 DF-1 drivers. I have used the serial and DH+ at the same time, so it is possible.

Darren

P.S. ONLY use the 700 series and above. The smaller 600 series currently has MAJOR problems.

 

[ndzied1]

Why did the people at Beijer tell me there wasn't one?

Were you talking to local people or national? Who did you talk to. If you don't want to post their name, could you please pm me so I can talk to our Beijer contacts and let them know the staff needs more training.

I'll Tell Farley you said hi.

 

[jcollier]

I'm fairly new here but I thought I'd throw in my $0.02. In the past I've used AD and AB PanelView screens. I like the EZTouch panels, the software is good and the price is right. Frankly I am not impressed at all with the PanelViews, mainly because of the software. PanelBuilder32 stinks.
I haven't heard anyone mention the Red Lion G3 panels... has anyone used these? I met with the Red Lion rep the other day and he demoed one for me - I was fairly impressed. Sharp TFT screen and extensive programming ability. Cost is only about $2300US for 10" model (software is free). They seem to have drivers for just about every PLC out there (we use AB and GE). We have one on order so when it gets here I hope it lives up to my expectations!

 

[ArikBY]

jcollier

Please let me know your opinion about Red-Lion.
I asked pepole opinion before a week or so and I did not got any answer.
I currently work with Hakko ,I like the Red-Lion, becouse the Hebrew support.
It seems no one from this forum ever use it.

 

[ndzied1]

ArikBY,

I did use a Red Lion CL05, I think was the model. This was using Modbus to an Emerson/Control Techniques FM-1 servo drive.

The event driven nature of the programming was hard for me to get my thought around at first. Most of my background has been limited to Panelview. However, after I realized how the events were driving the system, everything did work as planned.

This is going back a few years but I would have remembered if there were any major problems with the HMI. I never had to call for support so I can't comment on how well they can help you out.

Not sure how this relates to the higher end models you are looking at but since no one else has replied I thought something was better than nothing.

nOrM

 

[ArikBY]

nOrM

I talking about G306.Which is new model

It sold over here in very good price.The unit is loaded with option.

and I think Red Lion is brand name in the aotumation industry.

Not all the HMI work like PV.I personaly dont like PV but I realize they have some good things.But Very expensive.

 

[Tim R]

An update with the Cimrex Touch screen.

Ok, if you could only go back in time. This programming system for this touch screen is absolute garbage. It's so riddled with bugs it's almost unusable.

An example:

i was editing tags for my second controller which is a Servostar 600 servo amplifier. I went to update a tag and a screen popped up asking me to rebind. I'm figuring this is just for the servo star tags. I was wrong. It ended up erasing all the tag info I had already programmed for the other controller. (An AB SLC 5/03 running on DH-485). I only knew this because when I went to transfer the program onto the terminal, it told me there were errors with every tag I had already set up.

I saved myself by uploading what I had in the display and it repaired what the software did.

This is just one example. there are many other time consuming tedious tasks that make this software a perfect example of what to avoid when selecting an operator interface.

This display costs over 1200.00. You would think for this kind of money, thewy would have the software de-bugged before sending it out.

TJR