I am looking into using a Cmore HMI 205PLC and a Delta RMC70 motion controller for a project. I am using a Delta RMC100 now with my Siemens WinCC Flexible PC control. One of the things I like about WinCC Flex is the trend function. I am able to collect data from the motion controller every 10-20ms store it into an array and then display it in the HMI on a trend screen. I think I can do this with the RMC70 and the 205 but I don't know about the Cmore. I downloaded the software and the trends look a little basic. It looks like you can only log data every minute or so. Has anyone worked with the trends in Cmore? From the other messages on the board the Cmore is getting good reviews. Is there anything that you don't like about it? How about the RMC70 anyone used one yet?
Cmore Trends
- Thread starter CharlesM
- Start date
rdrast
Lifetime Supporting Member
I haven't played much with the CMore's, but I'm pretty sure that 10-20ms scans are not going to be possible.
The trends included only read a single point (per trace on the trend), per scan of the target device. Reading an external array in, and displaying it AFAIK is not possible. That would actually take a physical plot of the data value, as well as the data timestamp.
If you could do it as in VBA, or use an ActiveX control, maybe, but that wouldn't be real time, and I'm pretty sure isn't possible anyway.
CMores are fantastic, easy to use, capable alternatives to other small to mid-range HMI panels, but they aren't blindingly fast. I generally think of them as PanelView/TP170/<other brand> canned software HMI replacement. But they don't come close the the capabilities of Intellution, RSView, WinCC, WonderWare packages.
The trends included only read a single point (per trace on the trend), per scan of the target device. Reading an external array in, and displaying it AFAIK is not possible. That would actually take a physical plot of the data value, as well as the data timestamp.
If you could do it as in VBA, or use an ActiveX control, maybe, but that wouldn't be real time, and I'm pretty sure isn't possible anyway.
CMores are fantastic, easy to use, capable alternatives to other small to mid-range HMI panels, but they aren't blindingly fast. I generally think of them as PanelView/TP170/<other brand> canned software HMI replacement. But they don't come close the the capabilities of Intellution, RSView, WinCC, WonderWare packages.
Peter Nachtwey
Member
Call Jacob at Delta and let him know what you are doing.
Jacob will be working on a Cmore example program. Jacob may be able to help unless you are experienced at this and don't need out help. I don't get involved in HMI software and examples, but I am interested on how well the trending works. Trends can be very valuable. I am forwarding this thread to Jacob to make him aware.
Jacob will be working on a Cmore example program. Jacob may be able to help unless you are experienced at this and don't need out help. I don't get involved in HMI software and examples, but I am interested on how well the trending works. Trends can be very valuable. I am forwarding this thread to Jacob to make him aware.
rdrast
Lifetime Supporting Member
Peter... Can a CMore actually read and plot an external X/Y array?
Orn Jonsson
Member
C more vs EZTouch Same stuff???
I had an application last year which required a 50msec update on a trend graph with one variable that was to be displayed on the touch screen. Both EZTouch and Cmore have 1 sec update time as their fastest speed on their built in trends. This almost put me in the PC + HMI area (rather spendy). I tried an EZCE panel with an Excel "viewer". Didn't work. Then I figured out that individual bar graphs are updated every 10msec or so if you are using Ethernet to communicate between the PLC and the Touch screen. I slapped 40 narrow bargraphs on the screen and loaded the variable into the first bar on the right, then I used a simple shift register to shift the data to the left as it was updated. This created a FAST live graph.
Works great. The price was right and the customer is happy.
It looks to me that Cmore has excactly the same features and setup as the Cmore. (minus the email).
OJ
I had an application last year which required a 50msec update on a trend graph with one variable that was to be displayed on the touch screen. Both EZTouch and Cmore have 1 sec update time as their fastest speed on their built in trends. This almost put me in the PC + HMI area (rather spendy). I tried an EZCE panel with an Excel "viewer". Didn't work. Then I figured out that individual bar graphs are updated every 10msec or so if you are using Ethernet to communicate between the PLC and the Touch screen. I slapped 40 narrow bargraphs on the screen and loaded the variable into the first bar on the right, then I used a simple shift register to shift the data to the left as it was updated. This created a FAST live graph.
Works great. The price was right and the customer is happy.
It looks to me that Cmore has excactly the same features and setup as the Cmore. (minus the email).
OJ
Tom Jenkins
Lifetime Supporting Member
The Cmore isn't intended to replace a high speed data logger.
I use the trends for process data, and every second is more than I need. The trends work well for me. I do have two minor gripes, though. First, the x axis is sequential numbers, and I think actual time stamps are much more useful - they have a clock, so this should be doable. I would also like the y-axis to be tied to a register, so I can vary the resolution later on.
I use the trends for process data, and every second is more than I need. The trends work well for me. I do have two minor gripes, though. First, the x axis is sequential numbers, and I think actual time stamps are much more useful - they have a clock, so this should be doable. I would also like the y-axis to be tied to a register, so I can vary the resolution later on.
MarkTTU
Lifetime Supporting Member
Tom Jenkins said:
I have no idea why the guys at AD didn't use time stamps in the Cmore... Probably something to do with EZT compatibility, but it sure would be nice to have the option of time stamps ... I always have a hard time explaining to guys that don't speak English to begin with that there are 1440 minutes in a day and that means that on the graph 1440 is now and 0 is yeaterday... Always fun.
Peter Nachtwey
Member
Orn Jonsson said:
But how would you plot the position, velocity and control data that is generated by the motion controller? Since you know how our product works I thought maybe you would have an idea. Some HMIs can load the whole array at once from the motion controller and plot the data. This is not trending but truely graphing. The HMI must have a lot of memory.
Orn Jonsson
Member
I use a time marker on the "x" and freeze button to stop the graph from updating if I need to check the data.
Yep; this works only well with one variable. It would be nice if AD gave us access to the trending registers on the CMore so we gould graph (plot), stored data the way it suits us...
OJ
Yep; this works only well with one variable. It would be nice if AD gave us access to the trending registers on the CMore so we gould graph (plot), stored data the way it suits us...
OJ
Peter Nachtwey
Member
Bad News
We just got our Cmore and I have been told the Cmore does not have arrays to store the motion data or is fast enough to poll for the data.
We just got our Cmore and I have been told the Cmore does not have arrays to store the motion data or is fast enough to poll for the data.
Peter Nachtwey said:We just got our Cmore and I have been told the Cmore does not have arrays to store the motion data or is fast enough to poll for the data.
Granted I've only done the CNS 1210 & 1350, aren't arrays fairly simple? As in, it's a pertty standard thing for most computer based languages?
I'm reasoning that it should become a more & more standard feature in the near future.
Siemens
My Siemens rep got me a better price on a C7 touch screen/PLC combo. It has enough I/O and a Profibus port. This will allow me to go Profibus to the RMC70. I was planning on ethernet to the Cmore 205plc and the RMC70. With the cost of the hub and the ethernet card for the 205 the Siemens came in $300 cheaper. Now all I have to do is get the project.
I got an email from Delta today. A salesman is coming to see me next week. That's just perfect timing.
I am still going to keep an eye on the Cmore. It looks like a good product. Maybe they will have more options in the next version.
My Siemens rep got me a better price on a C7 touch screen/PLC combo. It has enough I/O and a Profibus port. This will allow me to go Profibus to the RMC70. I was planning on ethernet to the Cmore 205plc and the RMC70. With the cost of the hub and the ethernet card for the 205 the Siemens came in $300 cheaper. Now all I have to do is get the project.
I got an email from Delta today. A salesman is coming to see me next week. That's just perfect timing.
I am still going to keep an eye on the Cmore. It looks like a good product. Maybe they will have more options in the next version.
Peter Nachtwey
Member
Cheaper yes, better no
Ethernet works so well and offers so much flexibility.
The new controller communicates at 100 MHZ full duplex and can respond to packets in less that .65 ms. That is fast. It could be faster but somewhere in there a little motion control must be done.
The problem I see with Profibus DP is that the motion controller is a slave and most HMIs are not a very good masters as it takes a little programming to get all that data through the Profibus' 'small hole' There are only so many registers that can be mapped to input and output registers. This makes it difficult to read a lot of data at one time as it appears you want to do. Profibus DP will work best if there is a PLC that actually gets the data so the HMI can get what it wants with little programming. Read the on-line help on the Profibus DP. Call if you have questions so the right decision is made before you start.
CharlesM said:
Ethernet works so well and offers so much flexibility.
The new controller communicates at 100 MHZ full duplex and can respond to packets in less that .65 ms. That is fast. It could be faster but somewhere in there a little motion control must be done.
The problem I see with Profibus DP is that the motion controller is a slave and most HMIs are not a very good masters as it takes a little programming to get all that data through the Profibus' 'small hole' There are only so many registers that can be mapped to input and output registers. This makes it difficult to read a lot of data at one time as it appears you want to do. Profibus DP will work best if there is a PLC that actually gets the data so the HMI can get what it wants with little programming. Read the on-line help on the Profibus DP. Call if you have questions so the right decision is made before you start.
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