Why is language quality so bad here?

Excuse me. This is my first post but I have read many messages here before.

English is not my natural language. I do speak and write four others, mainly Asian languages. I think most of the writers here are from the United States where English is still the official language. I also think there are many examples where people write messages with really bad grammar, spelling and rules. When we learn English our teachers told us what was the correct way to use the language. I think all people who learn English after their own langauge expect that natural English speakers will have at least as good knowledge as we have.

When I do not understand a message from someone in the United States I have to do a lot of checking. It may be I do not understand because my English knowledge is not good enough, or it may be because the writer is lazy or careless and writes his message very badly. Sometimes I can very easily understand someone from China or Brazil if they write in English because like me they have been taught the rules by their teachers.

Please, it would help all the readers who are not natural English speakers if you could write your messages taking care of the rules.

Thank you all.

Elmohamady,

I understand your concern. The problem has many dimensions. I think the main one is that public school graduates in the US do not know the English grammar rules. Our school system has effectively been funded and controled by the federal regime since about 1980. In that time, from my observations, the knowledge of the typical graduate has fallen to a very low level.

Previously, local school systems were mainly paid for and controled by local school boards elected by the local school parents. They demanded certain standards, and got them. Now the standards have to be relaxed to allow the central government to claim "success" for all. Success in their terms is a failure to me.

And weigh in the fact that this is an online forum, not an exam.

It would be an advantage if everyone can read and write the same language.. but as long as we understand what others are trying to say would be good enough and hope that it wouldn't be an obstacle for us to communicate and share.
For 2 machines (systems) to communicate, the language have to be perfect, e.g. modbus, DH+, etc, even the speed have to be exactly the same.
Errr.. this could also be a place we practise.. so let's write! hehe

Personally I think a lot of it has to do with technology.

When I was at school, college and then university, nearly all of my assignments and coursework etc was handwritten, looking in dictionaries for spellings, and actually using books.

Now my children are at school, it is expected of them that most homework and assignments and such are done on a computer. If my daughter spells something incorrectly or uses the wrong punctuation, the computer program she is using automatically corrects the mistakes she has made, and without her even knowing what her mistake was.

Also we have the problem of texting on mobile (cell) phones. If I read some messages that my children receive I need a translator, and it is getting more and more common to see this so called 'txt' speech in everyday language.

Before long vowels will cease to exist.

Just my 2 penneth worth.

Mark

If my daughter spells something incorrectly or uses the wrong punctuation, the computer program she is using automatically corrects the mistakes she has made, and without her even knowing what her mistake was.

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Yes, in my young days (many years ago), I read science fiction stories about a time when the people had lost all knowledge and become complete idiots, and the Earth was run by robots and computers. I was amazed by such stories, but now I have lived to (almost) see it happen.

Not to sound like a jerk here, but we're in engineering, I'm sure no one here has a degree in english studies. People here are taking thier own time to answer questions, and I don't think they would appreciate being told how to write thier responses. More often then not its the questions from middle eastern countries that I cannot understand, or that are too vague, lacking on basic information, or ask questions that can come straight from the manual.

More often then not its the questions from middle eastern countries that I cannot understand, or that are too vague, lacking on basic information,...

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Andy, those do not bother me like the questions from native English speakers that are too lazy or too dumb to make the effort to communicate effectively. Written communication is an art that requires work, and doing it sloppily results in the same type of communication as a sloppy PLC program.

Thank you everyone for these replies. I did not expect to get such a response.

snimra said:

as long as we understand what others are trying to say would be good enough

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For 2 machines (systems) to communicate, the language have to be perfect

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I do not think machines need a 'perfect' language. They just need one with a content that is enough for their needs and one that they both agree and understand.
Humans are machines too. We can allow much more flexibility in our rules and we can do error correction in many of the cases. However "as long as we understand" is my problem. Sometimes I am not clear if the writer is wrong or if I am just not flexible enough in using the rules. And so I do not understand. If I did understand all the messages I would not have written mine.

Thank you again.

I speak fluent STRINE (Australian) only
- I was told about a machine with the program written in German - even had a German Keyboards.
some one changed the language to English - this caused one huge crash.
the letters are not compatible

Hello Andy

I must have been writing my last answer when you wrote yours. I am too slow in writing my English messages.
I am not requesting that all writers everywhere in the world write in good quality English. That is too much for some people to achieve. I am just disappointed that native English speakers are not more proud of their language and want to use it properly. (Please notice, I am still learning! In my first message I wrote 'natural English speakers'. I have seen now that Lancie1 wrote 'native English'. I have checked this because I thought maybe calling you natives was insulting. It seems this is OK?)

I have overcome some confusion in your message. You wrote 'thier' twice. I know there is no word 'thier' in the English language. I know that you made a mistake. But I did not know at first what mistake you had made. I did not know if you had changed two letters in 'their' or changed a letter in 'trier' or added a letter to 'tier'. All of these words are in my English dictionary. There are probably many more. Someone who knows English very well would know immediately which mistake you had made and could correct it. All I hoped for was that United Staes and Canada people (and English, of course!) would try to reduce these problems to help us.

Have you tried writing in a forum in Urdu? I will try to answer you perfectly if you do!

Thank you.

Perhaps people from USA abuse slangs and particular expressions which is not familiar to people from other countries... I don't have any problem understanding the english grammar used here or at any other forum.... anyway I'dont care much about grammar what's important IMHO is getting the message delivered

I have overcome some confusion in your message. You wrote 'thier' twice. I know there is no word 'thier' in the English language. I know that you made a mistake. But I did not know at first what mistake you had made.

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You make a good point. A "native" English speaker, especially these days where shorthand "txt" speak is so prevalent, would skim right over the "typo" and think nothing of it. That same reader may read your criticism and think that it is petty or "nitpicky", but I can see where you are coming from. If you are trying to learn a new language, then you don't instinctively know from context what someone may be trying to say, you have to take everything literally, and assume any "typo" may be just another word or usage you are unfamiliar with, so then you have to research before you realize that the "typo" was actually a mistake.

It can be easy for us to take understanding of the English language for granted.

I find that some people (newbies) have problems explaining the basic problem they want help for, but I dont find that there is problem with language itself.

What do you mean by "bad" ?
Your last post seems to indicate that simple typos are bad (thier instead of their). Really, that is such a small problem. If the message gets accross, it is fine by me.
Some people may have a bit of dyslexia; If technically well formulated, a typo or two are totally irrelevant.

edit: Had to correct a few miss-spellings !

What's important (IMHO) is getting the message delivered.

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Yes, that is agreed. When you use terms such as IMHO, it only causes confusion for Elmohamady and others who have not been taught in their English classes that "IMHO" is local colloquial slang for "In My Humble Opinion". Really, your opinion expressed this way is not humble at all, but very arrogant and demanding of the receiver of your written communication.