Old Programs - New Owner

Long story short, a company that I used to work for shutdown and laid everyone off. They then sold the mill about 2 years later to a private company. The private company came and got all of the equipment that they needed to make their plant run better. All is going good so far. They then get ready to start running production and find out that all of the PLCs had lost their programs due to the battery going dead. They can't find a computer that has the programs. Here is my dilema, I have all the programs that they need to drop in and start up tomorrow. I don't work for myself (I work for a competetor) so I can't just go do the start up for them. I wrote most if not all of the logic that are in these programs, so I feel like they are mine, but I've never actually dealt with a customer. They are wanting to meet and "see if I can get the programs on their laptop" in a few weeks. We'll I believe that I should get something out of the deal. I put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into these programs. And don't feel that they should be free to the public. How would you handle this situation? Would it be illegal for me to ask for payment for keeping up with all of this information over the years?

Thanks,
MAE

I dont think its illegal because it is not the same company. Show me the money

Well, when you wrote those programs you were getting paid at the time. So all your "blood, sweat, and tears" was long ago compensated. Not to mention that the company you worked for almost certainly was paying for the computer and software you were using to develop this stuff. So toss that reasoning out.

Did you keep the laptop you were using when the company went belly up?

In any event, what it really boils down to is you have something that is of value to them and ONLY them. You don't owe it to them. They aren't owed it either, and assumed that risk when they purchased the equipment without taking care to make certain that had everything they needed to support it.

The fact that they are your competitor is the only hiccup in this all. Otherwise I would say get what you think you can for it. So I guess think of how you would feel if you put yourself in the shoes of your employer and what you would do if you were your employer. That will probably give you your answer.

Make sure you don't have a non-compete clause with your current company or it can get you fired. You make be able to sneak and do it but what happens if say in 6 months they find out. You may make a couple of thousand dollars right now but lose in the end. Maybe feel your current employer out and find out how they feel first. They may have no problem with it and you will then have a clear conscience.

IMO, since you wrote the programs as an employee of the previous company, those programs are 'owned' by the previous company. You simply have a 'copy' of the programs (albeit the ONLY copy). The private company 'bought' those programs when the mill was sold. The fact that they no longer exist is solely the fault of the private company. If you did not have a copy, the story would end here. Therefore, these programs are worth whatever the private company is willing to pay for them.

That said, I would only charge for my time in restoring the programs. Whether or not that is billed through your current company is your decision.

One a side not, I find it odd that "all of the PLCs had lost their programs due to the battery going dead". Really? All of them? I've had PLCs sitting on the shelf for 10+ years that still retained their programs.



-Eric

I don't know for sure that they have all lost the programs. For all I know they may not have the control power on! This was just a phone call out of the blue one day. I REALLY don't want anything to do with it but the money. I was thinking of providing them to a contractor and letting them pay me X amount and then they could go down and start it up. I would just be providing parts! Haha!!!!

mae said:

....We'll I believe that I should get something out of the deal. I put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into these programs. And don't feel that they should be free to the public. How would you handle this situation? Would it be illegal for me to ask for payment for keeping up with all of this information over the years?

Thanks,
MAE

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I agree with a previous poster, you were already compensated for your blood, sweat and tears by your previous employer. The programs certainly are not "public". They became an asset to the previous company and in that sale to the new company that asset should have been transferred.

When did you leave the company? Prior to the sale or during? I would assume that there would have been an agreement in which all company property which you held was to be returned when employment ended. I think we all know that we keep programs over the years as a "reference" library of sorts, I think you open yourself up to risk if you admit to having kept property and now are trying to exploit it.

I certainly would not be directly involved, huge conflict-of-interest, ESPECIALLY if you were to take your current work laptop and software to assist! IF it were me..... I would probably recommend a contractor to assist getting the plant up and running and walk away. Its a small world, certainly plausible for me to have an envelop containing a CD at lunch someday and bump into a member of the recommended contractor and exchange pleasantries, as I leave I pick my envelop back up and and run my last errand for the day. A stop at the bank.

Also, probably not a good topic to post on the intra-webz.

I think I'll take Paully's5.0 advice and keep it in my library and walk away. Right before we shutdown I went around to every PLC there and backed up all the programs to a laptop that was supposed to be kept in case it ever did sale. It was shipped off to corporate land. I never intended to even have a copy, but I found them one day and I've kept a library of all programs since then. I have used them as reference. As far as me using my current laptop, that would never happen. No amount of money that they can pay could replace the great job that I have now. Your last point - Is there a way to delete a thread if you were the one that started it?

Thanks for everyone's help!!!

I would recommend that you make a copy of the copy you have and give it to them as a gift. If they felt like giving you a gift in return that would be nice.

I would sell them the programs but I would not help them any further than that sale.

IMO, since you wrote the programs as an employee of the previous company, those programs are 'owned' by the previous company. You simply have a 'copy' of the programs (albeit the ONLY copy). . . I think you open yourself up to risk if you admit to having kept property and now are trying to exploit it.

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Legally, this is correct. You (Mae) do not legally own these programs, therefore you cannot sell them without becoming a thief. You need to first CYA before you start thinking about how to profit from this. You could easily end up being on the hot seat, or being hauled into court over a civil suit.

Ethically and morally, the thing to do is as Paully said, give them an anonomous disk copy (wiped clean of fingerprints) that mysteriously gets found in someone's mailbox, desktop, or doorstep.

Contact the site owner, Phil Melore, to get a thread removed.
[email protected]

Careful here, even giving them the programs for free could violate your current employment agreement.

Careful here, even giving them the programs for free could violate your current employment agreement.

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No, it has nothing to do with the current job. These are personal items procured illegally before current job or current employer was in the picture. These programs have no value to current employer, and current employer does not own them or have any rights to them.

If you stole a coffee mug from your old employer, then your new employer does not own the mug or have any claim on it.

Lancie1 said:

No, it has nothing to do with the current job. These are personal items procured illegally before current job or current employer was in the picture. These programs have no value to current employer, and current employer does not own them or have any rights to them.

If you stole a coffee mug from your old employer, then your new employer does not own the mug or have any claim on it.

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His current employer is a competitor - it may have everything to do with it. And it may not. Best to know for sure instead of taking legal advice from any of us if his job is at risk.

You might be contravening copyright laws.

Just because you have a copy of the programs you wrote while working for a former employer does not give you any rights to use, sell, or even give away for nothing. Those programs belong to your former employer.

Even if that former employer has ceased trading, another company may have bought them out, which means the rights to the programs you hold may belong to someone else.

However, if you are genuinely 100% certain no-one else has claim on the intellectual property, then you can pass the information over, but it would be best to show you had researched who "owns" the rights. You don't own any rights in any shape or form, even though you wrote the code, you did that while working for someone else.

You can also offer to re-write the programs, but you may have to prove that the new programs are written differently, or offer significant improvements. Simply doing the "same again" would be classed as "copyright infringement".

Tread carefully, intellectual property rights are a minefield here in the UK, I suspect worse where you are.

In fact, you may have compromised yourself by stating, on an open forum, that you have copies of programs that you have no rights to.