Old Programs - New Owner

[PLC GURU]

you guys are getting way to conplicated for something so simple. these were his backups. the other company lost them that's there fault. sell them to a contractor let him deal with the rest. if they didn't have that then they'd have to pay someone to rewrite them anyways.
you make money contractor makes money off a semi easy job and potential future work and company gets working machines at a decent price. win win

 

[jstolaruk]

Yep, real simple till someone higher up decides to get their corporate attorneys back involved - and they were there to facilitate the purchase of the equipment, no doubt about that.

 

[daba]

Hopefully it is as simple as that PLC GURU.

There may always be a risk involved.....

 

[daba]

you guys are getting way to conplicated for something so simple. these were his backups. the other company lost them that's there fault. sell them to a contractor let him deal with the rest. if they didn't have that then they'd have to pay someone to rewrite them anyways.
you make money contractor makes money off a semi easy job and potential future work and company gets working machines at a decent price. win win

so, if and when the **** hits the fan, how does the contractor explain where he got the backups from, which of course leaves the OP exposed....

 

[bce123]

i would tell the new co. flat out they can have it. just tell them to keep you in mind for a posiston if you get fired for letting them have it. you have aparently allready admitted to having somthing that most likely belongs to them and you should give it back else they may take leagl action. just my 2 cents.

 

[daba]

although you can still get into litigation for divulging something you don't have ownership of, even though you wrote it...

It's about determining if anyone is gonna suffer losses...

 

[PLC GURU]

well if his computer self destructs and his backups get corrupted then everyone loses. the reason why I threw the contractor into the mix was to alleviate the potential non- compete. if that weren't an issue then he should just do it himself. Don't charge some crazy number that will upset people be reasonable.
He was smart enough to maintain the programs.
How would you handle it if it were 10 years from now, he still had a backup and the company lost there programs and never had a backup? What's the difference?

 

[mae]

I have had these programs for 5 years. This equipment set up for years before it was purchased. These are nice people and I'm not trying to screw them around, in all honesty they could probabaly get the back ups I made and put on the laptop that was supposed to go with the mill. They don't want to. They don't want to deal with the other company anymore. After this reading all the litigation stuff in this thread, I'm not sure that I ever had the copies. I don't want that headache. Yeah I'm pretty sure that the copies I thought I had were just jpeg files.

Thanks for the information from everyone!

 

[BobB]

I would be looking for a good lawyer for advice before doing anything!!!!

 

[Gil47]

The programs you have from your old job I see as being no problem

It was your job to develop the programs
It was your job to keep the programs up to date
It was your job to keep backups
It was your job to keep safe backups off site
Your job done
That is why you have them still now ,
you were doing the job required.

The dilema I see for you is, the new owners need to provide you with proof that they gained ownership of the programs when they purchased the mill.
They already assumed right, that you would have done your job and have some safe copies available.

They are just trying to bypass there duty of proof.

Your current new employer needs to know you have safe copies, and that you have been approached to provide them, and upon there proof of ownership you will hand them over.

Well that's my thoughts

 

[JesperMP]

Here is my opinion:

If the programs were specifically written to the old (now closed) customer. i.e. the programs are not standardised programs that were not specifically written to the old customer, then the case is clear. The old customer owned the programs, and the new owner bought the entire plant including the programs.

You can hand over the programs to the new owner.
I dont think you can ask them to pay for the programs, since they own them already. But you can bill them for your time that you spend on helping them, also time in your own office. Only your conscience can limit you in how high you set your per hour rate.

The other problem is your existing employer will object you are helping a competitor. That is harder to advice about. I would ask your employer if it is OK to help the competitor. I know in other business that it is not uncommon to help each other, even direct comeptitors. But I also know of examples of the opposite.

 

[kekrahulik]

Here's where I see your situation:

1. You possess something that you may not have legal rights to. Yes, we all have programs stashed away, but those programs legally belong to the companies that owned the machines. None of us are totally up to date and informed about the legal documents of our companies - there are many little clauses out there.

2. You now work for a competitor.

3 You have now publicly posted these facts on a website that easily links back to you.

4 Lawyers are taking over the planet. This is evident in all of the ways that our jobs have changed.

Don't be so naive to think that either company wouldn't exercise their legal rights to protect themselves. How much would it cost in time and money for the private company to have someone write the programs from scratch? How much is it worth to your company to delay the competition? If either company becomes aware of your situation, don't you think it would be in their best interest to pursue you legally? Don't think it couldn't happen to you.

I would recommend that you consult a lawyer before doing anything else. At minimum, I would recommend that you kindly decline helping the private company out of concerns for "conflict of interest".

 

[Brijm]

Here is my opinion:

If the programs were specifically written to the old (now closed) customer. i.e. the programs are not standardised programs that were not specifically written to the old customer, then the case is clear. The old customer owned the programs, and the new owner bought the entire plant including the programs.

You can hand over the programs to the new owner.
I dont think you can ask them to pay for the programs, since they own them already. But you can bill them for your time that you spend on helping them, also time in your own office. Only your conscience can limit you in how high you set your per hour rate.

The other problem is your existing employer will object you are helping a competitor. That is harder to advice about. I would ask your employer if it is OK to help the competitor. I know in other business that it is not uncommon to help each other, even direct comeptitors. But I also know of examples of the opposite.

I agree with Jesper... The programs are most likely owned by the new company. It is their property, and you happen to have it backed up. You could charge them for your time in transfering the programs to them, that is all.

I don't think that your current company could do anything legally for returning property to a competitor, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't try. I would be upfront with your boss and let him know that you are returning the software.

 

[daba]

I agree with Jesper... The programs are most likely owned by the new company. It is their property, and you happen to have it backed up. You could charge them for your time in transfering the programs to them, that is all.

I don't think that your current company could do anything legally for returning property to a competitor, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't try. I would be upfront with your boss and let him know that you are returning the software.

IMHO that course of action could be taken as industrial sabotage by your new company. They might take the view that since you should not have these backups, supplying them to a competitor, even if there is no charge, compromises your contract of employment. They could even demand that you destroy the copies you have, since you had no right to have them.

A tricky one, for sure....

 

[uptown47]

I'm with Jesper and Brijm on this. I think people are reading too much into this.

For what it's worth I would do the following:

Go to my employer and tell them that you have copies of software needed at this other factory and that they've asked that you provide them.

Ask your current employer if that's ok. They will most likely say yes. If they say no, then ask your employer to provide you with a letter saying that they view you providing the software as a disciplinary offence.

Assuming they say that it's ok (and I don't think they'll have a problem with it). Then tell the new owners that you are more than happy to provide them with a disk containing everything you have pertaining to their factory. You will charge them a set fee of x dollars for collating the software and creating the disk and also allow them a certain leeway to phone you for advice if they get stuck working out which program goes where...

The amount you charge is up to you but (again, if it was me) it would just be a small-ish amount. Maybe enough to treat my good lady and myself to a nice meal with a bottle of wine. This is a figure that I'm sure the new factory would be happy to pay and would leave all parties satisfied.

Job done. Case closed.

;-)