SIMOTION VS Rockwell?

Looking for an opinion,

If you had a choice, which would you choose for a multi-Axis coordinated motion control application?

Choice 1
The newest Compact Logix controller with EIP Drives, which uses the motion instructions in the PLC, like motion card applications but over EIP. The HMI will be on the same Ethernet Network, but the I/O could be on DeviceNet or Rack I/O. The HMI would probably talk either on the same or separate networks.

Choice 2
A Compact Logix controller using EIP to talk to a SIMOTION controller. All time critical I/O would be on the Sieman's unit. The CLX plc would be supervisory, controlling everything else and transmiting motion data to the SIMOTION controller prior to running in automatic.
We don't want to use a Sieman's PLC.

The application is 7 axis, with 3-4 axis of coordinated motion that has to couple and decouple to different combinations in the sequence seamlessly.

We also need to be able to remotely change the programs. Should not be an issue with the CLX, but not sure how easy it is with the SIMOTION.

I'm looking for any advice from anyone who used either system, primarily any limitations that may not surface until you really get way down the road.

I have extensive 5k experience with card in the rack motion, but not with the new EIP drives and have no experience with the Sieman's software.

Of course both sales people say that they can handle 7 axis with no problem, but its difficult to put a guess on ease of use and the learning curve for either.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

ATU said:

A Compact Logix controller using EIP to talk to a SIMOTION controller. All time critical I/O would be on the Sieman's unit. The CLX plc would be supervisory, controlling everything else and transmiting motion data to the SIMOTION controller prior to running in automatic.
We don't want to use a Sieman's PLC.
.

Click to expand...

Simotion is a PLC as well as a motion controller. It can also control all your remote I/O via IM's through Profibus or Profinet.
You can also not use the Sinamics integrated and go with a CU unit for all your axis modules.
It'll be foolish to use a CLX as a supervisor and desicion maker and transmit data to Simotion for the coordinated moves and such when the Simotion controller was build to meet your requirements having to deal with only one hardware package.

ATU said:

We don't want to use a Sieman's PLC.
.

Click to expand...

Based on the last comment above, Simotion will not work for you. You already ruled it out because it is Siemens!

I was under the impression that the IO on the SIMOTION controller was limited. It was more of a motion controller with some IO to handle motion associated IO. Also, we have some EIP devices that I need to communicate with. Can the SIMOTION controller be an EIP master?

You can build your distributed/remote I/O network, HMI's, etc and plug it into the Simotion unit via Profibus or Profinet.
You can also network Simotion units/systems to one master unit.
Thus you have one master that controls safety, I/O and the lot.
As far as EIP goes I have no clue if/how will work with the Simotion.

Learning curve wise, i would say you should stay with AB since it is what you know. you dont know Siemens, and even said you would prefer not to use it.

If it was me and I was set on a Compactlogix, I would use a Delta RMC motion controller. It is by far the best motion controller I have worked with.

I would use Simotion and write your plc and motion code in the Simotion CPU
You can "hang" profibus or profinet io off of it. It's actually very easy and a very powerful controller.
Have you seen any demos with Simotion ?
The drive parameters and the axis programs are in one environment.
There's many programming tools for Simotion - ladder, ST, MCC chart, DCC, plc open blocks etc


It will do anything ! But like any versatile controller. You have to learn the tools.

Anyway Simotion will not control ethernet ip directly without some type of 3rd party interface

Has anyone used the new CLX controllers with the new EIP drives?

When you say new EIP drives, are you talking about the Powerflex 755 drives that you can use CIP motion?

Yes, we were looking at the Kinetix 6500 series

ATU said:

Looking for an opinion,

If you had a choice, which would you choose for a multi-Axis coordinated motion control application?

Choice 1
The newest Compact Logix controller with EIP Drives, which uses the motion instructions in the PLC, like motion card applications but over EIP. The HMI will be on the same Ethernet Network, but the I/O could be on DeviceNet or Rack I/O. The HMI would probably talk either on the same or separate networks.

Choice 2
A Compact Logix controller using EIP to talk to a SIMOTION controller. All time critical I/O would be on the Sieman's unit. The CLX plc would be supervisory, controlling everything else and transmiting motion data to the SIMOTION controller prior to running in automatic.
We don't want to use a Sieman's PLC.

Click to expand...

There are more choices that would probably better than either choice 1 and choice 2 include the ability to program over the internet.

The application is 7 axis, with 3-4 axis of coordinated motion that has to couple and decouple to different combinations in the sequence seamlessly.

Click to expand...

Easy.

We also need to be able to remotely change the programs. Should not be an issue with the CLX, but not sure how easy it is with the SIMOTION.

Click to expand...

easy

I'm looking for any advice from anyone who used either system, primarily any limitations that may not surface until you really get way down the road.

I have extensive 5k experience with card in the rack motion, but not with the new EIP drives and have no experience with the Sieman's software.

Click to expand...

Siemens is always complicated.

Of course both sales people say that they can handle 7 axis with no problem, but its difficult to put a guess on ease of use and the learning curve for either.

Click to expand...

It should be easy. It is done all the time.

It depends on your ability and the support you want. As bad as some people think it is, there is something to be said about a single vendor solution. If you mix products, support can be a bit tough.

There are more choices that would probably better than either choice 1 and choice 2

Click to expand...

I'm leaning toward the CLX because of past experience of the people working on the project. SIMOTION because of existing equipment in the facility, however no experience in designing machines with it. I am open to other motion systems if they could be integrated with the CLX. I really have to be able to talk to devices with EIP (In addition to the drives), that part is essential.
Knowing that what would you recommend?

Hi ATU

I think you have answered your own question. By reading the posts the Siemens motion drive sounds very good but you need Ethernet. Yes the Siemens motion controller can do this but you need a third vendor to do this.
If it was me I would stick to either Ab or Siemens and by the way I read your Post you want to have a clx plc. I have worked more with Ab motion than Siemens but I have seen a lot of the Siemens motion around. I understand from reading the web that the newer Siemens motion is embedded in the plc as per clx but that's only from reading the web.


Donnchadh

I would also lean towards Choice 1; a single platform if always preffered.
One mention though; I wouldn't connect any software or HMI application to the Kinetix Motion subnet, especially without serious managed switching.
IMHO, the best solution would be to use the onboard dual Ethernet port for software and any HMI/SCADA system access and add a Motion dedicated 1768-ENBT EtherNet/IP bridge which's only duty would be controlling the Kinetix subnet.