You are not registered yet. Please click here to register!


 
 
plc storereviewsdownloads
This board is for PLC Related Q&A ONLY. Please DON'T use it for advertising, etc.
 
Try our online PLC Simulator- FREE.  Click here now to try it.

---------->>>>>Get FREE PLC Programming Tips

New Here? Please read this important info!!!


Go Back   PLCS.net - Interactive Q & A > PLCS.net - Interactive Q & A > LIVE PLC Questions And Answers

PLC training tools sale

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 10th, 2014, 10:06 PM   #1
CeeDee
Member
United States

CeeDee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Posts: 94
PanelView Standard 600/300 Equivalents for the future?

Hello again,
I'm pondering the inevitable, that the Allen Bradley HMIs I work with and I'm responsible for, will eventually die.
A handful of Panelview standard 600s and 300 micros are on machines that use SLC500 controllers and some micrologix controllers.
Allen Bradley no longer supports or sales this line of HMIs anymore. I'm glad they still have the SLCs. Phew! I just opened a brand new one a few months ago for a bench-test stand I made. I work for a company that hangs onto equipment until they are deemed unrepairable and the company doesn't buy used either. Trying to plan for the future and to continue support of these existing setups, what are my equivalent replacement solutions?? I'm kind of lost. I'm trying to take into account control cabinet existing HMI mounting cut-outs, existing PLC compatibility, and HMI programming software. I just got the hang of the panelbuilder32 program earlier this year. GEEZzz! But, that too is no longer supported or sold.

Any ideas? Suggestions? Particular things to watch out for or stay away from?

I appreciate the advice.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 12:08 AM   #2
Ken Roach
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator
United States

Ken Roach is offline
 
Ken Roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 13,909
The PanelView Plus 600 will drop into the cutout for the PanelView 600 (at least, the Touch-Only ones will) so I've used them for replacements. Migration from PanelBuilder32 to FactoryTalk View Studio was... okay.

But nothing fits the PanelView 300 or 300 Micro cutout.

Now that I'm more familiar with them, I would choose Red Lion G3, Graphite, or Kadet every time. The learning curve can be steep, but the value, power, flexibility and support are the best I've found in the category of proprietary OS touchscreen HMIs.

For anything bigger than six inches we typically go Indusoft Web Studio on Windows 7 or Windows CE.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 08:43 AM   #3
Bullzi
Lifetime Supporting Member
United States

Bullzi is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,267
I am with Ken. If I have my choice of HMI I always go for the Red Lion. The Graphite series is a great product. The software is free too.

Given that the conversion from Panelbuilder to FT View ME is not just a import and done type of conversion you may be able to make the argument with the boss to convert over to Red Lion. It is going to take a lot of work either way.

Just my opinion.
__________________
There is never enough money to do it right but there is always enough money to do it again.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 08:10 PM   #4
CeeDee
Member
United States

CeeDee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Posts: 94
Those sound like winners to me. I've never used them before and am totally in the dark with how they program and how they hook up. Like I said, I just learned how to use A-B panelbuilder32 earlier this year. As long as the red lion products you suggest will communicate with pre-existing A-B SLC and Micrologix controllers it should work for the industrial environment these will be in.
I believe I might be able to do a single purchase to try one out. I hope the Graphite series sticks around for awhile since that is the one I'm eye-balling at the moment. I've been hunting around the Redlion website and google trying to learn more about these things.
This may call for a separate post, but I'm intrigued with the remote monitoring feature listed on the Graphite series. I was tasked summer of this year to start looking at a "callback" system of some type to text or call designated personnel if a machine faults out. Hmmm...
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 08:27 PM   #5
Bering C Sparky
Lifetime Supporting Member
United States

Bering C Sparky is offline
 
Bering C Sparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bering Sea, Alaska
Posts: 1,052
Sorry to Hi-Jack a bit here but.

Ken, where are you purchasing the Red Lion HMI's here in the Seattle area?

Thanks,
BCS
__________________
Changes in Latitude = Changes in Attitude
*********Florida - Seattle - Alaska****************

"I WANT MY LOGIX BACK"
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 08:28 PM   #6
padees
Member
United States

padees is offline
 
padees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 406
I agree with the Graphite as well. K2's are also really nice.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 09:00 PM   #7
CeeDee
Member
United States

CeeDee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Posts: 94
Hi-jack away! ...I'm starting to like the Kadet series more. The price is pretty good. And I don't need that many bells and whistles for it. I'm looking at it to possibly replace the Panelview 300Micro that controls an automated air dehydrator. I was told A-B Component series was the replacement for the panelview micro. So I got 2 brand new C400s to play with (still haven't had the chance to play with) and see how to integrate.

My question is, how hard are the Kadets using crimson to program? ...for a newbie, like me?
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 10:25 PM   #8
arlenjacobs
Lifetime Supporting Member
Canada

arlenjacobs is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kelowna
Posts: 613
You'll want to use the Graphite series, not Kadet, if you want long term replacement support.

The Kadet series is a Weintek hardware (or at least an exact replica), which Maple Systems also sells. It's been out for a while and I wouldn't recommend it for long term support & replacement.
The Graphite series is newer and will offer you better long-term support. Ask them where each is manufactured then make up your mind.

The software is intuitive to learn, so you shouldn't have too many troubles. If you can handle PB32 on your own then you can handle the Red Lion software.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 10:33 PM   #9
CeeDee
Member
United States

CeeDee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Posts: 94
I appreciate the heads up on the Kadet series. See, that is something I didn't know or could find anywhere online. Thats good info. I will definitely need long term support, especially with new IT dept. provided laptops and software coming sometime next year. These machines using the HMIs I'm working with are bought to run until they fail, then we repair them, run them, and repair them over and over until they pretty much just can't be repaired any more.
I also appreciate the confidence in the Redlion software. I might just have to personally buy the most affordable one I can with my own money and play with it at home before making a work purchase.
Thanks for the advice!
  Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 11:37 PM   #10
Bullzi
Lifetime Supporting Member
United States

Bullzi is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,267
CeeDee,
All the Red Lion HMI's will work great with your SLC and Micrologix PLC's. I have personally used the RL with both of those processors. If you have or can put the SLC and Micrologix on a Ethernet network it is even easier!!.

As for longevity the Graphite is a new product. They just recently received UL approval and Class 1 Div 2 rating. So we are talking about a very new product with a long life ahead of it.

The previous line of HMI, G3 has been a tried and true platform. I have used several of them and really like them. The Graphite just builds on what the G3 has done and takes it up a notch.

Here is story that just gives me one more reason why I prefer the Red Lion. I recently built several panels that used PV 600+. I had to ship the units from our UL shop up to my Skid Fabrication shop. I had my packaging guy build a special pallet to ship the units. He strapped them down. wrapped them in plastic and even put a do not stack "cone" on the top. They arrived at my shop with no visible damage (so there was no freight damage claim). The Plastic rap was not even scraped. When we opened up the panel the Panelview looked like it had exploded!! The whole thing is plastic and the the pallet must have been dropped or something like that. The plastic clips had given up and the board and display dropped out. It cost $1200 to get it repaired. A new one was $2000.

The Red Lion Graphite and G3 series are all metal on the back side. There is no way that a drop or bump would do that kind of damage!! You would have to run it over or drop it of the truck to maybe damage it. Both units are just rock solid.

BTW the G306 cost about $900. So for what I paid for the new PV and the repair I could have bought three Red Lion's.

If you have any problems finding a distributor for the Red Lion in the Seattle area you can PM me and I will give you my local guy's info. He has done me a good job. I am sure Ken and also point you to his local connection too.
__________________
There is never enough money to do it right but there is always enough money to do it again.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2014, 09:07 AM   #11
Cody
Member
United States

Cody is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: TX
Posts: 70
Web Studio has a PanelBuilder conversion utility that is nearly 100%. SoftPLC sells 6-21" HMI's with Web Studio pre-installed with WinCE, Win Embedded or Windows. Might be a better option than re-engineering the entire application.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2014, 10:07 AM   #12
Bering C Sparky
Lifetime Supporting Member
United States

Bering C Sparky is offline
 
Bering C Sparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bering Sea, Alaska
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
I might just have to personally buy the most affordable one I can with my own money and play with it at home before making a work purchase.
CeeDee,
I just spoke with a couple of distributors and also to RedLion Tech Support.
You can download the Crimson3 software for free and try it as emulator, which is included in the software. So no need to purchase out of you pocket for an acutal terminal unless you really want to.

Also shop around before you buy, I was quoted BIG difference in price between vendors.

BCS
__________________
Changes in Latitude = Changes in Attitude
*********Florida - Seattle - Alaska****************

"I WANT MY LOGIX BACK"
  Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2014, 07:15 PM   #13
CeeDee
Member
United States

CeeDee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Posts: 94
Bullzi -
Quote:
If you have or can put the SLC and Micrologix on a Ethernet network it is even easier!!
I'd love to if I knew more about it and how to do it. It has been awhile since I was in school for this stuff, and a lot has changed. Anything to make things work better and easier, I'm all in. My company just sucks for job-specific technical training. I do most of my training from hands on trial and error, google and youtube videos these days. So I tend to stick with what I already know or what I've just learned until I have free time to play.

Bering C Sparky -
Quote:
You can download the Crimson3 software for free and try it as emulator, which is included in the software.
I didn't know you could do that! I'll have to try that out this weekend. I was going to start looking at A-B's Factory Talk View thingy for the newer PanelViews on youtube and see what I might be dealing with. I have a feeling I might get some push back with the Redlion HMIs since everyone at our facility seems to use Allen Bradley, but I've mentioned some of the benefits I've learned about switching and trying something new.

Cody -
Quote:
Web Studio has a PanelBuilder conversion utility that is nearly 100%
. If someone in IT/Security knows this or finds out, then this might put the nail on the coffin for the Redlion stuff. But it is nice to know its there if I do get stuck with that as my only option.


You guys are awesome! Is there any good training for this stuff?

This stuff, I mean automation control, HMI installation and programming, integration, etc. I know Rockwell automation hands-on/lecture training for RSlogix500 was given to our crew many years ago (before my time, probably when RSlogix500 was still relatively new) in Seattle. All those techs that attended no longer work in our department. I haven't seen any shred of that kind of training like that in the 4 years I've been with this company. I wouldn't mind paying out of pocket for my own training and experience in this field.

Sorry, I've digressed this thread.

Last edited by CeeDee; December 12th, 2014 at 07:18 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2014, 07:18 PM   #14
the_msp
Lifetime Supporting Member
United Kingdom

the_msp is offline
 
the_msp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 640
Are there any UK guys on here reading this that are using any of the alternatives suggested above? I did a project in 2009 using an AB Micro PV 300. I might be repeating that project shortly.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2014, 08:22 PM   #15
CeeDee
Member
United States

CeeDee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Posts: 94
Talking

The PV300Micro I still use today.
It is a nice little unit once you get used to it. It's simple and effective. Nothing fancy. But it is old. Fear of when they finally die on me is what leads me here to find out other solutions. I have two C400 component series that are new in the box on standby to replace the PV300micros just in case. And then, I'll be holding a cram session on how to program those darn things. If I'm lucky, maybe it will be a priority by then and I can do it on overtime!
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Jump to Live PLC Question and Answer Forum

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Panelview Standard 1200 I/O Mapping plcengineer LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 0 January 13th, 2008 02:12 PM
Panelview - standard vs plus Cryogen LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 3 January 9th, 2008 08:29 PM
Panelview Plus 600 reading from SLC5/03 via NET-ENI story... Jawmunji LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 4 June 20th, 2007 11:30 AM
Panelview 1000 standard problems br8veheart LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 6 September 27th, 2005 11:54 AM
Panelview tomneth LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 2 January 7th, 2004 03:59 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:57 PM.


.