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Old April 4th, 2014, 06:17 PM   #1
Eric Nelson
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PV600 Upgrade Path...

I have a customer with over a dozen PanelView Standard 600 Keypad/Touch HMIs. They have been repairing and replacing them for years, and the operators all carry flashlights to see the ones with failing backlights.

I have been hounding them to upgrade, and they're finally entertaining this idea. I would love to replace them with Red Lion units, but they do not want to give up the keypads. Therefore, I think the only option is a PanelView Plus.

The existing units are catalog #2711-B6C2. Based on Rockwell's Migration Guide, the equivalent PV+ is a 2711P-B7C4A8, with a 2711P-RN6 communication module for the DH-485.

Does this sound correct? Are there any other things I need to think about? Is the 2711P-RAK6 cutout adapter the right one? What about the communication cable? The existing PV has the rectangular DH-485 connector (like a 1747-C10 cable), while the 2711P-RN6 module appears to have terminal blocks only. Page 25 of the PV+ manual says the 2711P-RN3 is the correct module for the 600. Which one is right?

I just noticed that there is a PanelView Plus, and a PanelView Plus 6. Now I'm totally confused...



-Eric
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Old April 4th, 2014, 06:44 PM   #2
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Okay, now I'm thinking I want the following:

2711P-B6C20D - PanelView Plus 600 Color with Comm. Module Interface and DC power
2711P-RN3 - DH-485 Communication Module
2711P-RAK6 - PanelView Standard 600 to PanelView Plus 600 Cutout Adapter

Am I close?...



-Eric
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Old April 4th, 2014, 06:47 PM   #3
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Don't put too much weight in the part numbers of the old Migration Guide.

RA did go to a "PanelView Plus 6" and changed some of the logic module part numbers. The basic size and shape of the terminals didn't change.

To replace a 2711-B6C3, I would choose a 2711-B6C5D8.

That's a PanelView Plus 6 600, with both Keypad and Touchscreen, with a 24V DC power supply input. It has the standard FactoryTalk View ME runtime without the 'Extended Features' Windows CE functions. It has just one RS-232 port.

Alternatively you can get a model that has both RS-232 and Ethernet, or you can add the Windows CE Extended Features. I would recommend the Ethernet model just for upload/download ease, and to plan for the day that the control system migrates away from DH485.

You can no longer get the DH485 plug-in modules for the PanelView Plus 6 600.

Instead, I would connect the serial port of the PanelView Plus 6 600 to a 1761-NET-AIC isolator, then run from the DH485 trunk connector on that to your controller.
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Old April 4th, 2014, 07:12 PM   #4
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I think we overlapped a little there.

How about this:

2711P-B6C20D8 PanelView Plus 6 600, Touch/Keypad,RS-232 and Ethernet, DC power, No Extended Features.

1761-NET-AIC RS-232 to RS-485 converter module, DIN-rail mounted.

1761-CBL-AS03 or -AS09 DH485 trunk connector to SLC-5/0x DH485 port cable.

The mounting adapter should work fine; the cutout did not change when the PV+ logic board was updated to the PV+6.

Last edited by Ken Roach; April 4th, 2014 at 07:17 PM.
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Old April 4th, 2014, 11:35 PM   #5
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Thanks for the quick response, Ken! Saved me a lot of reading.

The one thing I do NOT want to do is replace the cable from the HMI to PLC. The way the cable is run, it will be a lot less work to hack off the rectangular connector and wire it to terminal block on the AIC (make my own AS03). I had the same connector dilemma when I originally quoted replacing these with G3s (almost a year ago according to my previous post).

I'll put together a quote and see what happens. Based on past experience, I doubt they'll go for it...

Hopefully, the program conversion won't be too tough. I can import PBA files into FT, right? Each machine is slightly different, but they each have about 30 screens and maybe 100 registers, so I'd hate to have to start from scratch.



-Eric
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Old April 7th, 2014, 11:45 AM   #6
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I did a handful of PanelView Standard to Plus conversions this spring (also 6" units).

The conversion software did about 70% of the work. Most of the objects converted right over.

But they don't look any prettier than the originals. I spent some time adjusting the colors and backgrounds and fonts and bezels, then used the GFX import/export feature to reproduce those changes in bulk on many different screens.

I also found that application using DH485 are a little slower on the PV+ platform than on the Standard platform.

Because the conversion translates all the PanelBuilder32 tags into HMI Tags, they are polled at a 1 second rate and that was too slow for the operator keypresses. I used an RA Knowledgebase document to convert all the HMI Tags to Direct Reference tags, and adjusted the Update Rate for each screen to be 250 milliseconds and got better pushbutton performance.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 10:09 PM   #7
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Resurrecting this thread with an update:

My customer finally decided to go with the new PanelView. I went there today to make it all work, but can't get the PanelView to communicate with the PLCs. I made a quickie drawing of the connections (attached). The previous (working) machines use the same layout, but the old PanelView just plugged straight into the link converter, without the need for the NET_AIC, since it had a 485 port. The old PanelView was sitting at node 2.

I suspect the new PanelView simply doesn't know where the SLC and ML1000s are on the network. In the PanelView program, the tags are prefixed with [slc500],[ulogix1], and [ulogix2] (i.e. [ulogix1]T4:2.PRE). Where do these names get associated with the nodes? In PanelBuilder, it's in the RS485 comms setup.

In the conversion log file (attached), the first line complains that RSLinx is not installed. Is this the problem?

I also noticed that the conversion process added double colons (::) ahead of the analog (which were unsigned integers in PanelBuilder) tags. What's this about?

Any thoughts on the next things I need to do?



-Eric
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Connections.jpg (28.9 KB, 13 views)
Attached Files
File Type: txt convertlog.txt (8.0 KB, 7 views)
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 10:17 PM   #8
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One more thing...

They used a straight-thru serial cable between the NET-AIC and PanelView. (standard fully-populated cable with a gender changer on one end to make it female-female). The lights on the AIC blink while the PV boots, but then go out. They start blinking again if I unplug the cable, and also when I use a cable that only has pins 2, 3, and 5 connected. I also tried swapping pins 2 and 3 for the hell of it. Still can't connect to the PLCs

I read HERE that the pinouts on a factory NC13 cable have pins 6 and 9 unconnected. Does this matter?



-Eric
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 11:20 PM   #9
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After a bit more research, it looks like I need to add the device manually in the Communications tab (right click the serial port and 'add device'). So, if I name the three devices to match the existing tag names 'slc500', 'ulogix1', and 'ulogix2', will it just work as is, or do I need to edit all the tags? I'm headed back to this customer tomorrow.

Still confused about the double colon added to some of the tag names though.



-Eric
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:12 AM   #10
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The "Shortcut" names should be equal to the device name from PanelBuilder32, and be in square brackets as you described them.

The double-colon is a way to tell RSLinx Enterprise that the following address is an SLC/PLC style address with a colon between the File number and the Element number, instead of a ControlLogix module-defined tag with a colon between its elements.

Last edited by Ken Roach; July 3rd, 2014 at 01:28 AM.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 03:33 AM   #11
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Once again, clear and concise info that will save me a ton of frustration!

Thanks so much, Ken



-Eric
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Old November 25th, 2014, 06:53 PM   #12
Eric Nelson
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I've been meaning to update this thread for a few months. Finally found the time!

First off, my default communication setup screen looked like the 'CommSetup1' picture I attached. It took me f-o-r-e-v-e-r to discover that you could drag down the window below where it says 'Mode: Online' 'Not Browsing' Once I figured that part out, the rest was pretty straighforward.

The only other issue I had was connecting the new PanelView to the network. I had the new PanelView plugged into the serial port of the newly added AIC, and an AS03 cable between this AIC and the RJ-45 port on the link coupler (the 'Peripheral' port), where the old PanelView was connected (like the 'Connections' picture in my previous post). This did NOT work.

The solution was to toss the AS03 cable, and connect to the 6-pin Phoenix connector on the link coupler, as shown in my edited 'ConnectionsR1' picture.

This has been running perfect for the last few months, and they now want to proceed upgrading the rest of their PanelViews. Their only 'complaint' is the new password system. They would much rather have the old 'type in a number' password instead of the newer login with username and password. Any way to make the new units use the old password method?

Thanks again Ken for all your help over the years!



-Eric
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File Type: jpg CommSetup1.jpg (53.4 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg ConnectionsR1.jpg (31.2 KB, 13 views)
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