AB Pricing

[Operaghost]

Hate to be the grammar police but is anyone else infuriated by the use of "there" in this thread? I would toss out your quote on that basis alone. Sorry, you might be a great engineer, but your quote is going into the circular file.

I am reminded of a post a few months back by another user for whom English was a second language and he had the hardest time understanding the posts because the grammar/spelling was so bad. This one would be throwing him for a loop.

I've been known to mispell as well, but if I see "loose" instead of "lose" I just stop reading the thread!

OG

 

[bce123]

Hate to be the grammar police but is anyone else infuriated by the use of "there" in this thread?

would you give him a ticket for going 1 mph over the speed limit? I noticed it once in his reply

 

[grs]

Lol, I agree. Or, the one that also gets me - 'could care less'. If your AB distributor 'could care less' then he's probably interested in your business. Maybe he COULDN'T care less.

But I wouldn't go as far as being infuriated about it. It's just something I always notice.

Hate to be the grammar police but is anyone else infuriated by the use of "there" in this thread? I would toss out your quote on that basis alone. Sorry, you might be a great engineer, but your quote is going into the circular file.

I am reminded of a post a few months back by another user for whom English was a second language and he had the hardest time understanding the posts because the grammar/spelling was so bad. This one would be throwing him for a loop.

I've been known to mispell as well, but if I see "loose" instead of "lose" I just stop reading the thread!

OG

 

[Jeff23spl]

Well,
We used to buy AB circuit breakers, now we buy from Cutler Hammer, used to buy AB pushbuttons, now we buy squareD, used to buy AB HMI's, now we primarily use Red Lions.

Now, AB has cut there prices on these items trying to get the business back (almost half on many of these).

We're are fairly loyal to our distributors, but also expect them to get us the best prices possible. I don't ussually give much warning, when I switch; and don't often switch back easily, when I find something else I like.

I'm looking for the best value and quality for my customers... I expect the same from my distributors.

If you are in direct relationship with the customer/end user, you can check if there is any reason to use AB instead of anything else and take arrangement to use a competitive brand.
For plc stuff or in a huge plant where AB is everywhe, you have 0 options but for a drive panel that is usually by its own...their is manny other drive brands out their equal of better than AB...Same things for panel goods...

 

[harryting]

My 2 cents,

If you are hitting your head on the brick wall, don't get ****ed at the wall, go around it.

After decades in this business, working for an end user, OEM, and intergators big and small, the one thing I would advise the OP is to go with what he does better, which we gather already, getting the best $ for AB part isn't one of it.

 

[DamianInRochester]

No use complaining about it. Life isn't fair. You play the hand your dealt, not cry that you got bad cards.

Early on I quoted a build job around $300,000.00 where I actually got special pricing from the AB distributor and still had more in part cost than the competitor did for the whole job. The trick was that the shop that won the job also designed the job. They built in extra parts on the BOM that was released for bid they they knew didn't need to be included. End customer's proejct manager knew this as well, but was getting a kickback. To make a long story, it was never a legitimate opportunity to begin with.

One of the first things you learn in this business is that it is not about how good of work you do or even about price. It's all about relationships and trust. It's about who knows who. It can take many years just to get on someones bid list. But those are also the best customers, and the ones you work the hardest for. The ones that shop the business around every time are just looking for the cheap way out. The results usually speak for themselves.

Is AB overpriced? Absolutely! And their market share has eroded because of it. At the same time, you have to give credit for a company that has mastered the top down selling technique. And on average they have always done a good job of making sure your getting a good product. Maybe not the best in some instances, but always near the top in virtually all categories. And it rarely fails to perform.

It is much easier to work the system than to try and buck it.

 

[OZEE]

Hate to be the grammar police but is anyone else infuriated by the use of "there" in this thread? I would toss out your quote on that basis alone. Sorry, you might be a great engineer, but your quote is going into the circular file.

I am reminded of a post a few months back by another user for whom English was a second language and he had the hardest time understanding the posts because the grammar/spelling was so bad. This one would be throwing him for a loop.

I've been known to mispell as well, but if I see "loose" instead of "lose" I just stop reading the thread!

OG

*misspell

 

[Operaghost]

I was wondering if anyone would catch that!

And "there" was (mis)used multiple times by multiple people. But it only takes once for the circular file. It shows detail. Same with a resume. If I see something misspelled in a resume, I circular file it.

Personal gripe.

OG

 

[dploof23]

We all speak about the multi-nationals and Monopolies.
Why is ,that the Techconnect is based in the thousands and this is the only PLC Mfg. that charges at this rate?
The distributors then advertise those who pay the most. Fair enough, isnt it?
This is a lisence for both Rockwell and their associated distributors to Print money.
At the moment they have the advantage, don't they?
My previous employer had not paid the techconnect contract.
He bought a new interface unit - around Au$1800 .
With luck the Sales rep loaned him the latest disk for the drivers.
Everything else you buy from other suppliers the drivers are available.
This is becoming an expensive, huge profit making, joke.
Schools teach with cheaply supplied AB PLC's...

Thats my rant for the day - Now I will get back to work

I couldn't agree more. When I started my job, the previous integrator was an AB guy. We had a tech connect contract. Towards the end of the other guy doing the controls here he started to switch to other vendors for push buttons,(automation direct) and even the PLCs and the HMIs, (Mitsubishi).

I couldn't be happier about the switch of PLC brands. The few unfortunate times I had to deal with techconnect, I had to call only during buisiness hours, (or pay a huge fee), and rarely would I get someone on the line who I could even understand their accent.

With the Mitsubishi the tech support is free 7am to 7pm on weekdays. I always get someone who sounds like they grew up on the same hemisphere as me, and the product is as robust and powerful as the AB stuff. (In my humble opinion). The motion control blows AB out of the water too. (Again IMO). I have heard of some companies that will want AB for the front end while using Mitsubishi motion with AOI's.

As far as the push buttons, the auto direct stuff was junk. Can't beat the rugged reliability of the AB buttons. So due to the need to bullet proof things for our operatiors, we still pay roughly 100 bucks a button.

My 2 cents.

-Dave

 

[skeet]

Hate to be the grammar police but is anyone else infuriated by the use of "there" in this thread? I would toss out your quote on that basis alone. Sorry, you might be a great engineer, but your quote is going into the circular file.

I am reminded of a post a few months back by another user for whom English was a second language and he had the hardest time understanding the posts because the grammar/spelling was so bad. This one would be throwing him for a loop.

I've been known to mispell as well, but if I see "loose" instead of "lose" I just stop reading the thread!

OG

Could not agree more...

 

[Tom Jenkins]

Stuntman, I have been in exactly your position.
Your problem isn’t that Allen Bradley prices are higher than their competitor’s, your problem is that your competitor’s are getting better prices than you are, correct? You can try going to a different distributor, but frankly that probably won’t work. First, A-B doesn’t technically have restricted territories, but distributors are very hesitant about poaching from another distributor or undercutting prices.
I got around this problem for my business by:

1) Being honest and up front. I simply told the salesman that I wasn’t getting competitive pricing and that I was simply not going to bother bidding jobs that were tight specified to A-B anymore. In my case that had leverage, since the projects were often bid by my competitors outside the distributor’s territory – if I didn’t get the job, neither would he.

2) Demonstrating that I was a good commercial risk. I had been in business long enough that they had confidence I wouldn’t fold, and I had good credit references from other distributors selling other product lines.

3) Showing growth potential. I could identify the number of projects I wasn’t going to bid and give the salesman an idea of the potential A-B product content.

4) Providing packaging opportunities. OK - I can buy enclosures cheaper on the internet, but a 10% premium on that price in return for a better discount on high dollar items like PLCs made my overall cost significantly lower. Ditto pilot lights etc.

5) Establish a relationship with the salesman and his boss. Ask them to lunch – you offer to pay. Explain your business and your plans, clearly identify your needs and show you understand theirs.

You need to give the distributor something to work with – whining won’t cut it.

It worked for me – I was a good customer for that distributor until I sold my business. Not the biggest volume, but steady, paying reliably, and easy to work with. It was a win-win situation.

 

[Clay B.]

As Tom eluded to when you want a bigger discount you have to give them something as well.

Remember a panel is PLCs, motor starters, VFDs, HMi's, wire ways, wire, terminal blocks, etc...

While you may lose on the PLC cost there is no reason you can not make it up somewhere else. Also if you can not price it down using the same specs show the customer an alternative. I have done this and when placed side by side the customer went with my alternative.

Distribitors are in the business to make money so they have to mark up what they buy. Just like you it is how they pay their bills. So the big guys will always get the bigger break. 10 percent of a million is always more money than 10 percent of a thousand.

That said there is always wiggle room. Also you do not, should not, ever just buy from just 1 distributor. Best way to keep those guys working for your best interest is to let them know someone else is as well.

Every project I do involves atleast 3 different vendors and all of my vendors know this. So they try to take business from each other all the time. Infact to keep things simple for me I have them bid one year contracts. I group like parts and say "Give me the best deal and I will by that product from you and only you for the next year unless a spec requires me to do otherwise." Since I have a multiyear relationship with my vendors they have a good idea of the volume so they can price more competitive. Plus this a face to face bid so when one takes work from the other a bit of "s*** talking" takes place and the next year the other vendor is ready to jump.

I am by no means my vendors biggest customer but I like to think I am one of their easiest to deal with.

Bottom line, you have to know your vendor and he needs to know you. Once you have this then you can get the bigger discounts.

 

[Stuntman]

Thanks for answers, both good and bad.
Tom- I think you nailed it perfectly.

I really want to use AB as a major supplier and I am trying to give my distributor every opportunity to make that happen. I just need some numbers I can work with.