Attn: Canadian IP Electricians looking for work

[sthompson]

I can't speak to how it is in other provinces and states, but in BC, an Electrician that runs Loomex (Romex) for a living, has the same qualifications I have. Unfortunately, it just isn't so, and I wish they would go back to when Industrial, and Construction, were different tickets.
I have travelled extensively in North America for work, and the majority of Electricians I have worked with at different sites were very competent. Many were just not exposed to the kind of technology we were installing, but could be trained. Others seemed to have about a grade 5 education, and just couldn’t get the simplest concepts, or perform even the most basic troubleshooting. Those were very trying days.
I have also supervised numerous contractors over the years, and you soon learn which Electricians to ask for. The ones that actually do it the way you tell them, and ask questions when they don’t understand, or believe there is a better way. I have no problem with someone suggesting other options, or even questioning why I want something a certain way. No one can think of everything, and I especially like the ones that catch my mistakes. However, I am the one with the big picture, so I have the final say.
Having said that, I have worked with Electricians I wouldn’t trust to wire an outhouse, or dog house, let alone a million dollar machine. You would explain it to them, give them prints, wiring diagrams, termination sheets, and they would still screw it up completely. I could fill volumes with the stupid things I have seen people do.
I could say much the same about some Engineers I have worked with. I worked with one that ran the whole line on the wrong sensors. He basically had the entire line backwards, and wouldn’t listen to me until we tried to run the line, and of course it wouldn’t work. So, he went home, and I spent two days re-writing his control program. Just a little above my job title and responsibilities at the time. Fortunately, that was the exception rather than the rule, I have worked with Engineers that I learned a great deal from, and who would actually listen when you brought something to there attention. Most were somewhere in the middle.
So Allscott, we all feel your pain. Take heart, there are competent Electricians out there, and I would think that with the current state of the Forest Industry in Canada, not to mention that overall economy, there should be more than a few to choose from. Well, that is my rant for now. Good luck.

Stu.......

 

[SNK]

and I wish they would go back to when Industrial, and Construction, were different tickets.

In Ontario, they ARE different "tickets" or Licenses.

309C (Domestic & Rural)
442A (industrial)
309A (construction & maintenance)

What you will find though, is that most 309A guys are employed in Industrial environments, and do not have the experience that should be required for the job, and do-not understand 4-20mA process variables...for example.

It can't work vice-verca, because a 442A CANNOT work on a construction site employed as an Electrician, according to the rules.

So, for people that are going to write exams, if given the choice, CURRENTLY THAT IS.... Take the 309A exam.

BTW, what are you offering in compensation Allscott?

Just my 2 Cents.

 

[allscott]

In Ontario, they ARE different "tickets" or Licenses.

309C (Domestic & Rural)
442A (industrial)
309A (construction & maintenance)

What you will find though, is that most 309A guys are employed in Industrial environments, and do not have the experience that should be required for the job, and do-not understand 4-20mA process variables...for example.

It can't work vice-verca, because a 442A CANNOT work on a construction site employed as an Electrician, according to the rules.

So, for people that are going to write exams, if given the choice, CURRENTLY THAT IS.... Take the 309A exam.

BTW, what are you offering in compensation Allscott?

Just my 2 Cents.

Check your pm's I don't think I should post it here.

 

[leitmotif]

For those outside of canada IP means Interprovincial Journeyman electrician. I believe if you are from out of the country you can get one by proving education and experience and then writing a test.

We are located in southeastern Saskatchewan. As far as the temps go when I woke up on Tuesday it was -38C, today we should hit a high of about -8C. You get used to it, our summers are beautiful. We get really cold snaps but its not like it lasts all winter.

I forgot to add my favourite of the week which I should have added to my qualifications. If you are given two drawings, one with an input card and a limit switch labeled "accumulator full", and one with an output card with a light labeled "accumulator full", we shouldn't have to have a 20 minute conversation as to why the limit switch in no way shape or form should be wired to the light....

After last week here in Seattle where the river FROZE (about once every 5 years) - only about an inch deep - we got down to + 18F at night and I was chilly but live on boat.

Worked for a short time in freezers - thank whomever for long johns and insulated coveralls and frequent forgotten parts.

Not sure about any -38C and a high of -8C.

How about if I see you in the summer?

Dan Bentler

 

[allscott]

After last week here in Seattle where the river FROZE (about once every 5 years) - only about an inch deep - we got down to + 18F at night and I was chilly but live on boat.

Worked for a short time in freezers - thank whomever for long johns and insulated coveralls and frequent forgotten parts.

Not sure about any -38C and a high of -8C.

How about if I see you in the summer?

Dan Bentler

Trust me 18F on a boat beside the ocean is going to feel a whole lot colder then it did here at -8C today. I was outside smoking today and I didn't bother with a parka, just a sweatshirt and it was beautiful. People don't realize what a difference humidity makes in how cold you feel. In the winter where I am it is dryer than a popcorn ****. I've been in Toronto with temperatures similar to today and froze my but off.

But yea -40C is cold and for a few days a year we have to deal with it.

 

[allscott]

not even f-a-r-t, common phil

 

[Ventax]

I am a self proclaimed DFE (Dumb F--K Electrician) I have had the pleasure of working for and with some truly gifted people over the years. One Engineer (Electrical) became agitated with me when I would proof his schematics and redline poor practices or alterations I suggested. He gave me a drawing once and immediately ranted that he wanted it built to the drawing, exactly to the drawing and don't waste his time with suggestions.

When I handed him the key to the lock on his new panel, he finaly asked what was wrong. I had carefully built the panel to his drawing including the short he indicated between 2 phases at 600v.

I have also worked for a senior electrician in a factory with a 4000A 600v distribution. THis electrician was going to perform maintenance on the capacitor bank and without shorting the CT he pulled a clearly marked plug from the cap bank controller.
Copper burns real bright when it is being arced from an open circuit CT.

 

[curlyandshemp]

I asked my family if they would be interested in moving to Canada. My son, age 13, said, "No, I want to live where they speak English." I gotta have a long talk with that boy. Good luck with your search.

Wow.

I have no idea what is happening with your American youth these days.

Two weeks ago I was in Pennsylvania on a startup. After the usual 10 hour day of commissioning, myself and my co worker went to a local steak house for a burger and and a few American beers ( 2 American = 1 Canadian Beer ). The girl serving us, perhaps no more than 19, asked us why we talked 'funny with an accent' and continued to ramble on about other stuff. Eventually she went on about the war in Iraq and Afhganistan and other stuff. We commented , yes we know because Canadian boys are getting killed too as Canada is also involved with the undeclared war over there. We stated Canadians also died during the attacks of 9/11, which took her by surprise, as she was under the impression only Americans were killed.

But the shocker was when she asked us if the Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan were fighting on the American side!?.

What are the kids in the US being taught nowadays?

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

My son, age 13, said, "No, I want to live where they speak English." I gotta have a long talk with that boy. Good luck with your search.

That is funny. I lived it Canada ( Newfoundland ) for 13 months. I could even speak like a Newf after about 6 months. It wasn't that different. Alberta would be much less of a culture shock than Newfoundland. I have been many places in Canada for weeks at a time. None are that much different from some place in the US if you include Alaska.

I would not be that hung up about the differences. There are too many similarities.
quote]
But the shocker was when she asked us if the Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan were fighting on the American side!?.

What are the kids in the US being taught nowadays?
[/quote]
It isn't what they are being taught but what they aren't being told. The Brits had suffered far worse on per person basis than the US or Canada.

The impression that most US folks get is that we are battling evil all by our selves. They are not far from wrong. I acknowledge that Brits are paying a higher price. No one mentions Canadians.

BTW, I have a Canadian customer that has need a real engineer. One that can understands robotics and the math that is required. You need to be very good at moving things in 3D. If you don't know what a Jacobian is then forget it. The knowledge required has never been cover on this forum and I know since I can remember back to 1999 when I first joined.

 

[leitmotif]

Wow.

I have no idea what is happening with your American youth these days.

Two weeks ago I was in Pennsylvania on a startup. After the usual 10 hour day of commissioning, myself and my co worker went to a local steak house for a burger and and a few American beers ( 2 American = 1 Canadian Beer ). The girl serving us, perhaps no more than 19, asked us why we talked 'funny with an accent' and continued to ramble on about other stuff. Eventually she went on about the war in Iraq and Afhganistan and other stuff. We commented , yes we know because Canadian boys are getting killed too as Canada is also involved with the undeclared war over there. We stated Canadians also died during the attacks of 9/11, which took her by surprise, as she was under the impression only Americans were killed.

But the shocker was when she asked us if the Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan were fighting on the American side!?.

What are the kids in the US being taught nowadays?

Curly

I am sure there were Canadians and other nationalities in the Trade Center Pentagon and on plane on 9 11 and even though on American soil died just like the rest.

the question I have is there were no simultaneous attacks on Canadian soil? I am 99.9% sure the answer is no but,,,

Canada and US are neighbors who often disagree but one thing is for sure in my mind when things get tough you guys are loyal allies always have been and I am sure always will.

Dan Bentler

 

[HJTRBO]

Darn, wish I could shoot over to Canada. Word has it that ex-pat Kiwi's with drunk driving convictions aren't allowed in Canada... What a shame!

 

[504bloke]

So if your idiot is from NC my idiot probably taught him....

That nearly made me fall off my seat !!!

 

[BobB]

Shame I was not a young bloke - would give it a go. 22 x 3 years is getting a bit long in the tooth though.
Would a management and marketing degree be of assistance? I have those as well. Probably impress the 'idiots'!
By the way, I was in a town called Broken Hill in New Soutrh Wales Ozz recently - mining - and we had 2 days at 48 degrees C. Add to that a red dust storm on the first night - planes stopped flying - it rained red mud. Still trying to get the stains out of the clothes - got wet straggling home from the local you know what. Nothing else to do there.

 

[ghettofreeryder]

Yeah try running a refinery in -40C. Everything goes cowboy then. Its bad when you have a small heater thawing out a larger heater that is needed to keep valve positioners from failing, which in this case was causing the fuel gas valves to big *** direct fired heater to open 100%. ESD!!!

 

[Soggy Canuck]

IP (so what)

I was called to a customer's plant this week to assist in a start-up on an industrial laser. This laser is used to slot plywood for metal die segments (cardboard box manufacturing). The building power supply was 208V 1PH, the laser required 240V. The "electrician" on staff installed an autotransformer setup as a boost- so far so good. The German feild engineer sent to perform startup insisted that some positioning errors on the machine were due to the fact that the 240V power supply was not properly referenced to ground. The "electrician" dutifully grounded the autotransformer output. My service call started by replacing the 200Amp fuses feeding among other things, the plant lighting. I replaced the 100Amp breaker used to feed the 10Kva autotransformer (I'm not kidding), replaced the auto with an isotransformer and restarted the power supply. On closer inspection this install was on a separate floor from the feeder panel, NO LOCAL DISCONNECT, the transformer fed a laser, chiller, rule bending machine and the PC used to run the whole rig. The "electrician" had mounted a series of plastic "cut to length" terminal blocks to the drywall behind the transformer and was using this as a splitter. The feeder wires to the "splitter" from the transformer were 16 Gauge hookup wire. I insisted on at least sizing the wires correctly and supplying a local means of disconnect. The "electrician" who made a big deal of telling me about his IP certification, insisted that this WAS NOT REQUIRED.

I gave up at this point, wrote up my recommendations on a service report and had the customer sign off on it. In addition to the electrical horror show the "Service Engineer" was running full motion cutting tests with the laser, the entire laser assembly was without guards over any of the steering mirrors or generating tubes. The "engineer" proudly showed me the hole he had drilled through his thumb while reaching into the machine to perform some minor adjustment.

I have worked in controls for my entire adult life and must say that IP certifications will perhaps keep the illiterate away from electrical work, other than that, they make eye-catching toilet paper. Until such time as someone can devise a infallible test for COMMON SENSE we are stuck dealing with some of the situations mentioned in these posts.