Automatin Direct Changes Download

[testsubject]

Welcome to the club, Arik!

I think that AD has the easiest PLCs to program.

One more point about the data view that no one has mentioned yet. You can just double click on the "On" or "Off" button turn it on or off without having to hit the PLC symbol at the top. This only works with bits. If it is a variable you still have to hit the PLC button.

On the topic of run-time edits; I do it all the time as long as my machine is in a state that can handle being left in the last known conditions prior to starting it. I also found that if you have an ECOM Module installed a runtime edit only takes about 20-30 seconds. Very quick indeed! And my code is typically in the 3k+ steps range...

I used to use the Direct Touch touh panel and am now using the EZTouch. I was able to condense 16 screens down to one thanks to the EZTouch and visibility and decimal tags!

Good luck to you,

Bob

 

[Terry Woods]

All of my editing is On-Line in Run-Time.

That is why I have developed such a taste for MGD!

Tangent Alert! Towards the end of this tirade I started enjoying the fact that I was in MGD-land. So... it sorta kinda went the way it did... so what.

And now, returning to our story...

I don't believe in writing a major-chunk of code and then dumping it in to see if it works... during production time... only to find out that it doesn't. Production doesn't have the time to wait while I shake out "just a few more bugs". Sure, I could just re-install the backup... but why go through that at all.

My main process has about 5000 lines of code. The process has been around awhile. I've been slowly going through the entire process and "breaking it, just so I can fix it!"

All "serious" process developers have this thing where they don't think there is a piece of code written by someone else that can't be improved... by guess who? I'm a "serious" process developer. I go looking for things that ain't broke, give them the once over and then I break them. Quite contrary to the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy... do ya' think?

When I say I "break-it" what I really mean is that I replace the code. However, as I said, I don't write a major-chunk of code and then dumping it in to see if it works.

I write "shadow-code". This is code that runs along side of the existing code. The existing code is still controlling the process. The shadow code runs along side, using all of the actual Inputs, Outputs and Control Relays as conditionals in the shadow-code. The result is that the shadow-code is running in a real-time, real-world simulator.

The shadow-code that would normally drive a real Output actually drives a "Proxy-Bit". The "Proxy-Bit" acts as an Output just as the shadow-code determines.

In this way I can add many lines of code over several days without affecting the process. At the same time I add my "Bug-Traps". There are certainly times when the existing code operates differently than the shadow-code... those differences are the reasons why I'm rewriting the process... the reason why I'm "breaking it".

As time goes on, I watch the code, I watch the traps and I watch the clock... it's almost time for another MGD!

Eventually, I become satisfied that the shadow-code is behaving as I expect.

Then I go to every real Output line and insert a "Code-Diverter-Bit" (--| / |--) as the last element in the rung to the Output. I then insert a branch below the existing code. That branch consists of a Proxy-Bit followed by another copy of the "Code-Diverter-Bit" (--| |--) in parallel with the entire existing code and the --|/|-- Code Diverter Bit. Like so...

                        Code

                      Diverter

                         Bit 

---| EXISTING CODE |-----|/|---+----( OUTPUT )     

                               |

                        Code   |

  Proxy               Diverter |

   Bit                   Bit   |

---| |-------------------| |---+

I use the same "Code-Diverter-Bits" in each Output involved in the current "break-it / fix-it".

I have the luxury of being able to bring down one of my HMI's and modify its display while the system is running. I build in the capability for the "Code-Diverter-Bit" to be turned ON and OFF.

I drink my 15th cup of black coffee (Navy-Style) and finish the last smoke in my third pack.

When I finally get the hair.... I turn the "Code-Diverter-Bit" ON. Now the Proxy-Bit, from the shadow-code, is controlling the real Output. I watch the process... I ask the operators to test the extrema, the worst-case scenarios... Now I start sweating bullets. However, I feel some relief knowing that the bullets are small, .22's, maybe, maybe smaller. I know I can bail out at the push of a button. I'm not worried about a major screw-up. Both the bug-traps and the operation of the shadow-code, while in shadow-mode, have indicated that the shadow-code is fundamentally sound.

I write-up and post a "Technical-Flash" to tell the current shift operators, and the on-coming shift operators, what I have done, and what to do if the new code presents any problems... "Push Button-X".

This "routine" has been working for me for 8-years. In all that time, I've NEVER held up Production with a program-modification issue. Certainly there have been process-program issues... but, I'm pleased as Punch to say that those were caused by the old existing code... not my "break-it / fix-it" code.

Yeah... I'm "serious" about what I do... and, believe it or not, I'm one of the "good-guys".

Knowing full well that my primary job is to increase company profits, I provide first for the Production-Folk, so that they can do their jobs as productively as possible, then I provide for the Maintenance-Folk so that their job of restoring the system to running condition, when necessary, is as easy as can be allowed (keeping safety in mind), and then last, I provide for me... the programmer. "I work harder so you don't have to!"

Did I tell you that I'm a pro-worker kinda guy?

(127)

 

[ArikBY]

Eric,Mike

Thanks for the reply

I have Direct Logic32 BRICK type for DL-05,06,105. I got only CD (legal copy).It come without any book.I will ask for that.
I think I doing pretty well until now .I maybe little bit clumsy but I will improve my technic as long as I will keep installing PLCs.
I already installed and run the DL05 in label machine. The DL-05 was test case for me to see how it work. I ordered DL06 which I have to pick it up on Sunday.
I don’t feel confidence to go and install bigger AD PLCs yet.
In most of the lines REAL on line edit is needed .I develop the soft while the machine or the line is running I stop just for configuration.
With Omron Modicon I actually write ON LINE.
But I have plenty of small machine which DL-05,06 can fit.

Bob

You wrote “I think that AD has the easiest PLCs to program.” I think is not so bad.
You cannot compare it to Omron CX. It different league.
But the Price is also from different level.
When I compare DL-05,06 to ML or Omron CPM,The deference is 70-100% more then AD.When it come to DL205 AD still cheap but not so much 10-15%.
I did not compare above that.

Terry

I like your idea I use to do it too.It work very good. I use it when it too complicated to see all the changes in once.
I see we have another thing in common you are coffee addict just like me or maybe like most of the people in this business. I use to say that blood is not flowing in my vein just block coffee.My favored coffee is Turkish coffee or Mud coffee.That the common coffee in our army.It hard to change it even you have all the fancy cofffee around.
What is navy-style?
MGD is a kind of beer ?Ist it.I spend some time in the States, it sound like name of beer.

Thank you all

 

[Eric Nelson]

MGD Demystified...

MGD is a kind of beer ?Ist it.I spend some time in the States, it sound like name of beer.

In this forum, MGD can have two meanings. You have to look at the context. Here is an easy formula:

• IF - Terry is typing (or involved in any way, shape, or form)
  
  THEN - MGD stands for Miller Genuine Draft. (An American beer)...
  
  ELSE - MGD stands for Millions of Gallons per Day. (A measure of flow)

Let's hope Terry does not measure his consumption of MGD in MGD...

beerchug

-Eric

(FUTW)

 

[testsubject]

Arik,

The DL-06 and the D2-250-1 programs are interchangable. They use the same number of Vmem, X, Y, and C bits. The only real difference is in the number of slots available which affects analog card settings. I am presently re-writing our machine code so that it can be used on both. I have very few inputs and half of my outputs are analog so this works well for me. You are right that I have no experience in the Omron CX series. Most of my experience is with A/B SLC-500, 150, GE Series 90, and 1 Siemens model which I forget the name of. After using DS32 for so long anytime I have to go back to RSLogix I just cringe. I even had an A/B rep tell me that DS32 was easier to use than RSLogix after I showed him what it was capable of. I am really fond of Block/Stage programming. I have used it to really get my scan times down which is very important to me. (I build scales for the food industry and we need to stop precisely) I find that it is easier to make modular code with it.

Terry,

I think you and I are cut from the same cloth. I also try to "break" old code and try to improve it. (mostly my own) It is surprising how much you can learn over time. I sometimes go back to old code that I wrote and say "what the hell was I thinking?!?" Funny what experience can do for you...

I really like your concept of "shadow code." I think I will have to add that to my arsenal, especially when in the field.

You mention navy coffee. When where you in? I was in from 81-87 and was a Fire Controlman (used to be called Fire Control Tech).

Take care all,

Bob

 

[ArikBY]

I think each of us think what he use is the best PLC or software package becouse he know it very well.
I am the type of person who like to know more and test more so I try
to introduce my self to new areas.
I used many years OMROM Syswin when I introduce to the CX I said buck off Syswin is much better.But when I leared how powerful is it it change all my view.
I think RS-Logix is powerful too.
I cannot say it on Direct Logic32 yet.
My conclusion is the big player in this field spend monay for software
pacage and the programming software become better and beterr.
The small manufactureres cannot spend for develop, and their software
are poor.
Me as self employee prefer what make my life esay,In decent price.
I know I willing to pay more for PLC with good package then cheap PLC with poor package.
When you talk on project with hundreds hours good software package do the different.
BTW anoter problem I faceing with Direct logic 32 is quick way to document my contact is there a way to do it when I insert contact.?

Bob you didnt wrote what is navy-style coffee.
I got that MGD is a beer type.
I like to drink in the States, Samuel Adam we dont have it here beerchug

 

[elevmike]

Ok Eric,

I guess your right, at least he had the sense not to get the 105 first lime ME! Anyway that was before the 05 and 06 were available.

Since he has the 05 already dont bother with the 06 right now. However I always recommend the 06DR as a good trainer because of the counter inputs, the big instruction set, built in 24vdc power supply, and RELAY outputs. It will make a much better cost effective "trainer" than all the other AD models.

Bob, is a Fire Controlman a master of destruction? Like one who fires cannons and shoots missles etc?..

Sounds like fun. (depending on which end of the process your involved in)

Mike.

 

[elevmike]

Arik,

A quick way to document your elements is to use the Documentation Editor. Its under the "tools" menu. or Ctrl-D. You assing the documentation into the elements (i/o, mem, C relays etc) before programming in the ladder or stage view. This will make things go much quicker than documenting during the edit process.

Once all of the elements you plan to use are documented you can then just use the nickname to create the program. Also if the Doc Editor isnt enough you can double click just above a rung and get a box for the Comment Editior, and document the purpose of the following rung. Be aware that the Comment Editor is attached to the rung just below, so if you decide to delete the rung, the comment will also be deleated.

 

[ArikBY]

Mike thanks

I treid what you wrote and it getting better. When I double click on the contact I open box which call element browser in the bottom on the left side I cane write my description.
In that way I dont need the documentation editor.Ctrl -D

Thanks

 

[elevmike]

Arik,

That's true, but if you have a good idea of what nicknames are going to be the Doc Editor is easer to use than doing it all in the edit mode. If you do your documentation first, programming is just a matter of "f" keys and nicknames. It will go a lot faster that way.

For instance You usually already know your inputs and outputs (X, & Y) You can enter all the info in the Doc Editor first. (nickname, Wiring info, and Comment). When programming just type in the nickname.

Also click on "view" > "options". Here you can set the amoutnt documentation you want to show in you ladder view. Dont forget to turn OFF 3-D tokens. This is really stupid, and I dont know what they were thinking. Youll find that it will be much easer to see WithOUT 3-D Tokens.

Mike.

 

[testsubject]

Arik,

Navy-style coffee is coffee made in a big urn that has been sitting for a few hours cooking. Very black and strong. Kind of bitter too.

And just because it happens to be inexpensive does not mean it is cheap in quality. Koyo has been around for many years and really have perfected their craft.

Hehehe, I sound like a fanboy....

Mike,

A fire controlman is the person who operates and maintains the targetting radar for the gun or missile systems. I operated the missile radar. While I was in there was not any conflict so we did not get to blow anything up except a few test targets. Missiles are too expensive to shoot off just for practice..


Bob

 

[Tom Jenkins]

A few more tips:

When you use the debug function in ladder logic view to change the status of a bit or the value in a register, the program logic will indeed over write it the next scan. If you use the override bit first, (force for you A-B jocks) then the logic will not over write your entry. This even works with inputs and outputs - great for testing. CAUTION: as with any override, the programmer has a moral obligation to make sure you don't leave any overrides active when you disconnect from the PLC. You may not REALLY get back to it in five minutes, you know!

When you are entering logic, you can click your mouse on the little magnifying glass icon in the window that pops up so you can enter the addres. That will take you directly to a documentation browser, and let you enter nicknames etc. immediately as you create logic.

Finally, Mike, I agree about the 3-D display - what is that **** all about?

 

[ArikBY]

Thank You All

I will be more clever when I will connect to my new DL-06 and face a new problem.
Bob
I didnot mean to insult KOYO I just said "I cannot say it on Direct Logic32 yet."
As coffee expert, coffee canot be quality if it not fresh.
As someone who served 3 yaers in the Israeli army and 20 years in the reserve I can tell what is good coffee.not in coffee shop.
I used to go to have in my post all the tool to prepare coffee.
What we drink is called Turkish coffee we take the bean roast them
grind them if you want to prepare it in the right way you have to cook in in a pot very slowly or if you in hurry put 2 spoons in your cup add hot water and you got it, that call mud coffee becouse you get big mud layer in the bottom.
If you keep it in the pot after a while it will test like $hit.
When I came to US I bring my coffee with me, no one who use to drink the American coffee cannot drink it.
As much as I looked I didnt find this type of bean in the States.

 

[elevmike]

I will be more clever when I will connect to my new DL-06 and face a new problem.

That a boy Arik! Suggestion: get the display also. If your going to do any positioning work a quad encoder will connect to X0, and X1 (up to 5kh.) The DL06 also has a drum instruction.

Have fun, and feel free to ask for tips. as you can tell there's a lot of guys willing and ready to help.

Mike.

 

[testsubject]

Arik,

I'm not offended. I have a much thicker skin than that.

Turkish coffee is indeed an aquired taste. I completely agree with you that the best coffee is fresh ground. While in the Navy though, sometimes the only coffee around was what was left over from earlier.

and yes, it definitely taste like $hit. (just add more sugar and cream...you'll never know)

Now I do not drink coffee everyday anymore. It was giving me the jitters all the time.

As Mike said, be sure to ask for help. I am always willing to pitch in.

Mike,

I am now using that code for first in/first out to select which head will dump next. It works much better than the way I used to do it.

Bob