Engine Monitor?

[Lancie1]

No, you can change the value of any memory location in program mode. Of couse, the actual PLC value will not change until the next time you download the program.

I am confused again. Your comment on Rung 2 indicates that you have 8 voltage input channels. I thought that your module only had 4 channels. Do you have two 4-channel modules, or one 8-channel module, or is the comment incorrect, or what?

EDIT: Never mind, back on Page 1, I see it is an 8-channel module. So your OAT does have a place to read a temperature from, directly. However, since this is a voltage reading, it probably does need scaling to get the correct value. That depends on what sensor is on the other end, and what its min/max values are, and so on.

 

[rvn336pf]

I am confused again. Your comment on Rung 2 indicates that you have 8 channels. I thought that tyour Thermocouple module only had 4 channels. Do you have two 4-channel modules, or one 8-channel module, or is the comment incorrect, or what?

These comments were entered by others to try and explain what was going on. Now that I am understanding more I will go back and rewrite all the comments.

What I have is a four channel T/C module in slot 1 and an eight channel analog voltage module in slot 2.

 

[Lancie1]

Great, you are doing okay so far. Once you understand the basic setup and configuration, it will get a lot easier. Then it becomes a matter of eliminating the bugs one by one.

What sensor is on the other end of OAT? I assume that it is not a thermocouple, but it could be a thermister or RTD or a temperature transmitter.

 

[Lancie1]

From what I see these K type T/C reading are really close.

Okay, if you really have Type K and not type J thermocuples, then you need to change the value in memory location V703. That is the one that sets the Thermocouple type. Right now apparently is is set to 0 for Type J, so your temperature readings will be off by quite a bit. Look in the Thermocouple Module manual to see what this value should be for Type K, then add instuctions to Rung 1 to change it. You will most likely need additional Load and Out instuctions on Rung 1 to set V703 to something other than 0.

 

[rvn336pf]

What sensor is on the other end of OAT? I assume that it is not a thermocouple, but it could be a thermister or RTD or a temperature transmitter.

This is one of my problems. Documentation was not given to me when I bought the original system. I told the company what engine I had and they worked up the sensors and sensor map to tell me what pins on which DB connector. I could attach the sensor map if you think that might help.

The only sensor I know for sure is the fuel flow sensor (Floscan 210B). Research tells me that it puts out 33000 pulses per gallon @ 16GPH

Now my problem is I need to wire this to the hi speed counter and write the ladder for this. I just barely understand where I am at now.

 

[Lancie1]

Never fear, we can help you solve it here. I like a challenge better thatn anything! Once the terminals to be used on the PLC are figured out, the program for the fuel flow will be fairly easy.

Back to the Type K thermocouples: I attempted to find the module manual and figue out how to set it up, but I could not find a thermocouple module on the AutomationDirect site. Is the F0-4THM some other brand?

 

[rvn336pf]

K1 is the input selection for K type T/C and then gets sent to v703. K0 takes care of unit type, burnout detection and something else and get sent to v704, v705 & v706.

I need to get comments written.

 

[rvn336pf]

I attempted to find the module manual and figue out how to set it up, but I could not find a thermocouple module on the AutomationDirect site. Is the F0-4THM some other brand?

Go to Automationdirect / tech support / Online manuals and Instructions / field I/O / DL06 family / DO Options

 

[Lancie1]

Yes, I found the manual now. You may have to use a different data type in Directsoft, since the FO-4THM module sends the Type K data as a Signed Decimal, with 1 decimal place.

D: Units Code Register
All thermocouple types are converted into a direct temperature reading in either Fahrenheit or Celsius. The data contains one implied decimal place. For example, a value in V-memory of 1002 would be 100.2 °C or °F.​

For thermocouple ranges which include negative temperatures (J,E,K,T,N), the display resolution is from –3276.7 to +3276.7. For positive-only thermocouple ranges (R,S,B,C), the display resolution is 0 to 6553.5.​

Negative temperatures can be represented in either 2’s complement or magnitude plus sign form. If the temperature is negative, the most significant bit in the V-memory location is set.​

The 2’s complement data format may be required to correctly display bipolar data on some operator interfaces. This data format could also be used to simplify averaging a bipolar signal.
To view this data format in DirectSoft32, select Signed Decimal.​

For unipolar thermocouple ranges (R,S,B,C), it does not matter if magnitude plus sign or 2’s complement is selected.​

The bipolar voltage input ranges may be converted to a 15-bit magnitude plus sign or a 16-bit
2’s complement value.
Bit 0 = Temperature Scale
(ignored if Voltage input is selected)
0 = Temp in degrees F
1 = Temp in degrees C
Bit 1 = Data Format​

0 = Magnitude plus sign bit format

 

[Lancie1]

On the fuel flow, basically you just count the pulses over some time period, then convert to gallons (multiply by scale factor). That has been done here before, I know for the RSLogix platform, and others.

 

[rvn336pf]

Yes, I found the manual now. You may have to use a different data type in Directsoft, since the FO-4THM module sends the Type K data as a Signed Decimal, with 1 decimal place.

IF I can't find the other data type I'll make more room for 5 digits. Hate this but this is only a backup once I replace the original system.

I cross that bridge when I iron out this voltage module. Although it does not hurt to start thinking about ahead of time.

 

[Lancie1]

Hate this, but this is only a backup once I replace the original system.

If programming this DL-06 seems like a hateful chore, you might consider hiring a programmer to help with this. I find that my Hated Chore List doesn't get done very well or very fast.

I have downloaded the High-Speed Input Appendix to the DL-06 User Manual. Your Fuel Flow input should connect to Common and Input Terminal X0. The High-Speed Counter Mode 10 is selected by saving "10" in the last two digits of V-memory location V7633. That sets up two counters, with inputs at X0 and X1, and Resets at X2 and X3. If you use software resets (your program would work better with a software reset to reset HSI0 Counter to 0), then you change some additional locations to implement software reset of the counter, so that X2 and X3 become available for standard digital inputs.

Once your High-Speed Counter is set up, then it becomes a matter of deciding what time period to use. I think you said 33,000 Pulses per Minute = 6 Gallons per Hour.

One way to set it up:
33000/60 seconds = 550 pulses per second maximum
Set up Timer T0, with Preset = 1 Second
Start Timer T0 when HSI0 is reset to 0.

When T0 = 1 Second, read Counter HSI0 and Save Pulse Count (PC) to V-Memory location, then Reset HSI0 and Reset T0.

Now compute Fuel Flow Rate (FR):
Fuel Rate = FR = (Pulse Count/550 Pulses) X 6 GPH
FR = PC X 6/550
Tests: When 550 pulses are counted in 1 second, Fuel Rate = 550 X 6/550 = 6 Gallons per Hour.
If 200 pulses are counted in 1 second, then Fuel Rate = 200 X 6/550 = 2.18 GPH.

This method would update the Fuel Flow Rate reading every 1 second.
More accuracy could be obtained by using a longer time period, such as 2 seconds. Only you know how long you would want to wait before seeing a new fuel rate reading. I would guess that in your airplane, you wouldn't want to wait more than about 3 seconds!

 

[Lancie1]

Documentation was not given to me when I bought the original system. I told the company what engine I had and they worked up the sensors and sensor map to tell me what pins on which DB connector. I could attach the sensor map if you think that might help.

The only sensor I know for sure is the fuel flow sensor (Floscan 210B). Research tells me that it puts out 33000 pulses per gallon @ 16GPH

Now my problem is I need to wire this to the hi speed counter and write the ladder for this. I just barely understand where I am at now.

Sorry, I have messed up again. I am getting too feeble to do this kind of work - can't remember what the numbers are!

So, Does 33,000 Pulses = 1 gallon of fuel flowed past sensor, and 33000 X 16 = 528000 pulses mean 16 Gallons have flowed past in one hour (the sensor maximum rate of flow)?

One way to set it up:
33000 pulses per hour/(60 X 60) seconds = 330/36 pulses per second = 9.16667 Pulses per sec = 1 Gallon per Hour
So 91.67 Pulses per second = 10 GPH
Set up Timer T0, with Preset = 1 Second
Start Timer T0 when HSI0 is reset to 0.

When T0 = 1 Second, read Counter HSI0 and Save Pulse Count (PC) to V-Memory location, then Reset HSI0 and Reset T0.

Now compute Fuel Flow Rate (FR):
Fuel Rate = FR = (Pulse Count/9.1667 Pulses)
FR = PC X 1/9.1667
Tests: When 91.667 pulses are counted in 1 second, Fuel Rate = 91.667 X 1/9.1667 = 10 Gallon per Hour.
If 146.667 pulses are counted in 1 second, then Fuel Rate = 146.667 X 1/9.1667 = 15.99994 GPH.

 

[rvn336pf]

Lancie1, Sorry about not replying sooner. I had phone problems (ice?) and lost internet.

The "Hate this" statement had nothing to do with trying to learn or get this system to work. What bothers me is that I feel that I am continually asking you and this forum for much appreciated help with something that would take me forever to grasp. I have to admit that I am consumed by the whole thing and want to learn more.

I was in a fully automated new local factory over the last week and I understood why prox sensors were where they were and what they did (sort of).
This stuff is mesmerizing.

I did some math in excel and have the same 147.667 pulses/sec but have a different formula for reading GPH. I look at both your formula and mine and see how they both work.

I will now read your latest posts in depth and I apologize for my poor choice of words.

Thank you, Frank

 

[Lancie1]

Frank,

I think we are both on the same wavelength for the fuel flow calculations. On your spreadsheet, 146.67 pulses per second would represents a flow rate of 16 GPH. But 146.67PPS/16GPH = 9.1667 pulses per second for only 1 GPH.