How to know when KEPServerEX will require tags?

[Tanquen]

I'm working on a system with around 12 Channels and different PLCs with different KEPServerEX drivers.

We converted a PLC program to run on a test 1756-L73 ControlLogix 5570 controller. I only had to update the InTouch tags items in the database from (B3:7/3) to (B3[7].3) and everything seemed to work fine.

Now we have the production PLC and its a 1769-L33ER CompactLogix 5370 Controller. Again, everything seemed to work until we tried to write to a tag in the PLC. All can be read but the only way to write to an address in this PLC is to create a tag in KEPServerEX and use the OPC quick client to change the value. I can then change the item in the InTouch DB to the KEPServerEX tag and that will work.

None of the existing PLCs in the KEPServerEX configuration have tags configured. Just changing from a ControlLogix to CompactLogix requires tags to be added into KEPServerEX but only for writes?

I hope I'm missing a setting or something.

 

[TheWaterboy]

Tags are only specifically needed if Kepware is acting on them itself (i.e. Datalogger or calculation) , otherwise it uses "dynamic" tag passthrough. There is an error log on KW that should help you figure out where the problem is

 

[Tanquen]

That is what I thought but I've worked on projects where you did have to have the tags. A co-worker was telling me he thought it was with micro 800s but I can't remember, anyway.

If I have an incorrect addressor something, I do see messages in the KEPServer configuration window event log, but is there another more detailed log? There is no error message when I try and write to the PLC from InTouch.

I checked with Wonderware support and the particular guy was talking to said that he thought you did have to add the tags. He was saying it's not their issue because we're using a third party driver and since you can add a tag in KEPServer and have it write to the value, that's what you should do. But I don't want to add a whole bunch of tags and then change the addresses of the InTouch database.

 

[TheWaterboy]

Yea, I did that once thinking it was the right thing ... never again. You can do that to slow down the scanning of a PLC if the SCAD system hammers it too hard, in that case you need tags.

If the driver is installed in Intouch (which I have zero knowledge of) I would think it would communicate to Kepware just fine. How does Intouch set itself up for Kepware?

There are also declarations in the SCADA tagname that are sometimes needed... @Boolean for example.

Create a tag in KW, can you read it from intouch then?

 

[Tanquen]

KEPServerEX has built in support for SuiteLink that Wonderware InTouch uses so no DCOMs to mess with and no InTouch SCM IO or DA server needed.

It has an access name that goes directly to KEPServerEX.

Yes.

"All can be read but the only way to write to an address in this PLC is to create a tag in KEPServerEX and use the OPC quick client to change the value. I can then change the item in the InTouch DB to the KEPServerEX tag and that will work."

So InTouch can read all the addresses without changing anything. At the moment though I can only write to a PLC address if I make a KEPServerEX tag. Then I can use the KEPServerEX OPC quick client to change the value and or I can change the InTouch tags item/address to that of the new test KEPServerEX tag and I can then read and write to the address.

 

[TheWaterboy]

Perhaps the KW installation is not set to allow dynamic addressing... but then it shouldn't be able to read.. so I'm lost . Sorry.

 

[Tanquen]

I've got a ticket open with KEPware hopefully they will have an answer that don't stink.

 

[TheWaterboy]

If you get Andy you have done well - he is the guru of KW. There may be others but he's the elder statesman. I think they keep him behind glass somewhere.

 

[Tanquen]

I hate that you can just call and talk to someone.
Support came back with this:
From Chris Morehead
Thanks for the inquiry. The 5370 model controller is a Rockwell Safety controller.

Although we have had user successfully communicate with the Safety Controllers, they are not technically supported in Kepware products.

We have a 1769-L33 ER, not a 1769-L33 ERMS with GuardLogix.

 

[TheWaterboy]

Yep you didn't get Andy ... they really went down the crapper when PTC bought them. As was expected.

You might get better support from SoftwareToolbox. They sell 'TopServer' which is just a privately labeled version of Kepserver like the RA version is (though they don't cripple it like RA does).
When PTC was unresponsive I contacted them and they talked me through an issue even when they knew I didn't buy it there. When I renew I am going to renew with them just for that reason.

 

[PreLC]

Can ++ Topserver support. It's a family run OPC company, literally half of my support requests are handled by the wife of the founder!

 

[TheWaterboy]

Do you have other machines currently working properly through this same Kepserver installation or is this a new Kepserver install where there might be a configuration issue at play here?

There are several articles about Intouch in the PTC KB but they are all pertaining to installation issues like DDE, Fastlink and interactive mode so if you have some others working then I can't imagine this would be the issue.

 

[Tanquen]

I just got another reply from that Chris Morehead guy and he just doubled down pointing to the product page saying they're all PLCs with safety features and KEPServer don't support that. But the knowledge base article that he linked to talks about GuardLogix devices which I already told him this PLC is not. That's the MS version on the part number.

One of the InTouch applications is an all-in-one that has all 13 PLCs in one application and looking through it I saw some newer tags with the descriptive UDT type addressing. This appears to be the issue. They want to upgrade the individual applications and leave all the addressing the old style with file word and bit and apparently KEPServer is okay with that. But if you're using a UDT style address then you need to tell it the data type in the InTouch database tags item address.

Something like this?

This works for read and write: B3:19/2
But this address will only work as read only: HMI_Water_PB
But this will let you read and write: HMI_Water_PB @boolean

I guess if you use the old style with the file word and bit it can figure out if it's a real or discreet. But if you use a UDT style address it doesn't know what data type it is. Maybe?

 

[TheWaterboy]

I believe I mentioned that...

There are also declarations in the SCADA tagname that are sometimes needed... @Boolean for example.

 

[TheWaterboy]

Note that this @Boolean declaration requirement also shows up when you exceed the 15th bit of a DINT