Job Description for Maintenance Electrician
- Thread starter darrenj
- Start date
curlyandshemp
Lifetime Supporting Member
allscott said:
14. Work with little or no supervision. Assist in training as directed.
I've been in a unionized plant where this is the most common trait of the senior plant electrician. Nobody knows where he is or what he is doing.
Sliver
Member
geniusintraining said:
It's Brian not Brain, but thanks for the inference.
We are a medium sized plant with 1 million tonne/year capacity.
We have aproximately 40 PLCs, mostly Modicon.
Some examples of recent daily PLC changes would be
- zero speed faulting on a belt. Find one of the targets has been damaged, so pulse frequency has changed. Modify timer to allow zerospeed to clear while mechanical maintenance work is scheduled. After mechanical work is done timer is set back to original.
- I recently installed a Zelio smart relay in place of a motorized cam switch controller on our potable water treament plant. The water treatment plant operator requested a change in the sequence timing.
- added a maintenance mode on a PLC controlled stacker to allow mechanical to adjust cylinder stroke without automatic control being active. PLC and HMI modifications.
- Force an output on or off to satisfy some temporary condition.
- Modify logic to correct for a worsening mechanical problem.
Looking back through our PLC change logbook I notice that at least half are timer adjustments. For every change that is made there are many times we just go online to troubleshoot.
I hope that explains my response a little better GIT.
About the different types of electricians, I believe that our trade attracts people more interested in learning new skills, even as we get older. Those few that are just interested in getting through the day and collecting their paycheck will not be found on this site.
Brian.
Last edited:
geniusintraining
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator
Sorry...the fingers are faster then the mind sometimes..Sliver said:
Sliver said:
I am not a big fan of timers (this being one of the reasons) I used to make my programs with a ton of timers using them to do my controls, then with the help of this site I have changed to using a state of a machine, not waiting for the timer to time out...not that your programs are screwed up like the ones I wrote
, but that just reminded me of them.Sliver said:
Yes it does and thanks for explaining
I usually put "dwell" timers at the end of a state, just to give a piece of machinery time to settle against what ever point it's moving to. So even with proper sequence logic and switches to indicate every movement, I still have a timer for every step.
I've noticed that things tend to bounce if they aren't given time to settle. (ya, we use a lot of pneumatics).
What I hate is when a machine has no switches, and just uses timers and hopes it moves to the proper location. (And I think this is why when I've talked to a few programmers, they always say they hate timers used in machine sequences).
Stationmaster
Member
Tharon said:
Concur........Feedback and THEN a time delay.......
I do a lot with pumps, and you don't want a short cycle situation. I sometimes give a pump up to an additional 45 seconds to run (idle) after "feedback" indicates that demand has been satisfied so it won't shut off just to restart again when another demand quickly arises. (After 30-45 seconds I can assume the irrigation cycle is complete.) I don't hate timers, but I don't think they should take the place of "feedback".
As for EXPECTED process variables....changes in density of materials, controlling a valve to keep the milk cold without freezing it, a touch screen with a set of virtual buttons to allow an operator to change a register setting INDIRECTLY within a set of BOUNDARIES may be a better way to vary a process without changing the "program", and without giving the operator COMPLETE UNLIMITED access to register/timer/counter values.
On the other hand. I too work on machinery that needs some adjustments due to mechanical wear and slowly increasing hydraulic deficiencies. I am sometimes asked to compensate by tweaking the program until the hydraulic guy gets there or until mechanical repairs can be made.
Stationmaster
Bruce99
Member
Programs & Changes
The funny thing about people is that we will behave...like people..Some electricians just want to make it to the next weekend, others want to solve problems. We all have different priorities. As far as program changes, in small machines or processes where little changes in the field and everything just keeps on running, very little editing will be done. Here our Compressor plant and air dryers rarely get changed. But the production equipment is more like a progressive evolution of change. Each operator control room use to have air pressure "plumbed" in. We installed pressure transducers at the compressor room and at the farthest point in the air line and display the data on HMI and displays on the plant floor. To get a baseline on Bandsaw bearing vibration we installed vibration sensors on the main bearings and trend the data. The wood diet changes, optimum speed for cutting is now reduced, all machine centers now require PLC changes regarding the speed control of their infeeds. The Dewpoint of the air takes a nasty increase because an air dryer was left on hand for half the shift. We have strobe lights and warning messages, but you almost have to have a high voltage cattle prod hooked up to some operator's seat before anyone says anything. The log sorting decks now need to have the timers changed, to compensate for the extra water in the air. The shift foreman just found out that so and so accross town has our same chipping heads and they are running 20% faster. Hey, we now have to bump the infeed of a machine with a hydraulic motor up 20%. Now all the speeds in the PLC, chipping area vs Speed have to be changed. With 4 different OEMs reporting machine input vs output and their own machine efficiency we have found reports that just do not match up with mill input vs output. The numbers are wayyyyyyyyyy out!!. The PLC collects all the scan data and now we have to program what the scanner sees and store the data to compare it to the reported data.... I have not included the trouble shooting changes... like making mouse traps to catch a bad prox wheel, encoder problems and the storage and calculation of VFD command speeds, production data, Positioner sets, target vs actual, and of course the time an operator takes to get his machine running after each coffee break.. PLC changes are continuous and evolving in complexity. Someone hears an idea from another company and its "can we do this?" Quallity control is a tread mill of change. There is too much wane on 2x4 on the right side. The scanner is OK can you change the offsets in the PLC? The trimsaw is sending square boards to the edger, The PLC scan Window needs to be changed. This is a very small sample of a normal day. Dont get me going on the report side of things.... Gawd I love this job!!!.... By the way someone here will say hey an HMI should be programmed to make these changes. Well the OEM only gives us a runtime license, and all of these changes are not "normal", and no one can anticipate the future. Who could have seen the Beetle kill wood being as extensive as it is three years ago? These machines are complex and to make an HMI to cover all the "what ifs" was and is not yet available on the market. When these machines were designed, most of the changes we make were not considered as rational. Hey change is good... right? We learn and change our way of doing things. A good PLC program must also be open to change. As a better mouse trap is invented it should be considered to be implemented in your PLC to improve production or efficiency..Sometimes this means a major PLC Program change, but it extends the life of the original program, right? Many companies are now evaluating if the PLC program is flexible enough to be changed, if not,over time, (a short time in most cases) the program is filed in the circular file and they buy someone else's mouse trap. Do not kid yourself, a bullet proof program today, is one that is open to change. It will last longer, and be remembered by more people than the one that made the circular file...
The funny thing about people is that we will behave...like people..Some electricians just want to make it to the next weekend, others want to solve problems. We all have different priorities. As far as program changes, in small machines or processes where little changes in the field and everything just keeps on running, very little editing will be done. Here our Compressor plant and air dryers rarely get changed. But the production equipment is more like a progressive evolution of change. Each operator control room use to have air pressure "plumbed" in. We installed pressure transducers at the compressor room and at the farthest point in the air line and display the data on HMI and displays on the plant floor. To get a baseline on Bandsaw bearing vibration we installed vibration sensors on the main bearings and trend the data. The wood diet changes, optimum speed for cutting is now reduced, all machine centers now require PLC changes regarding the speed control of their infeeds. The Dewpoint of the air takes a nasty increase because an air dryer was left on hand for half the shift. We have strobe lights and warning messages, but you almost have to have a high voltage cattle prod hooked up to some operator's seat before anyone says anything. The log sorting decks now need to have the timers changed, to compensate for the extra water in the air. The shift foreman just found out that so and so accross town has our same chipping heads and they are running 20% faster. Hey, we now have to bump the infeed of a machine with a hydraulic motor up 20%. Now all the speeds in the PLC, chipping area vs Speed have to be changed. With 4 different OEMs reporting machine input vs output and their own machine efficiency we have found reports that just do not match up with mill input vs output. The numbers are wayyyyyyyyyy out!!. The PLC collects all the scan data and now we have to program what the scanner sees and store the data to compare it to the reported data.... I have not included the trouble shooting changes... like making mouse traps to catch a bad prox wheel, encoder problems and the storage and calculation of VFD command speeds, production data, Positioner sets, target vs actual, and of course the time an operator takes to get his machine running after each coffee break.. PLC changes are continuous and evolving in complexity. Someone hears an idea from another company and its "can we do this?" Quallity control is a tread mill of change. There is too much wane on 2x4 on the right side. The scanner is OK can you change the offsets in the PLC? The trimsaw is sending square boards to the edger, The PLC scan Window needs to be changed. This is a very small sample of a normal day. Dont get me going on the report side of things....
Gawd I love this job!!!.... By the way someone here will say hey an HMI should be programmed to make these changes. Well the OEM only gives us a runtime license, and all of these changes are not "normal", and no one can anticipate the future. Who could have seen the Beetle kill wood being as extensive as it is three years ago? These machines are complex and to make an HMI to cover all the "what ifs" was and is not yet available on the market. When these machines were designed, most of the changes we make were not considered as rational. Hey change is good... right? We learn and change our way of doing things. A good PLC program must also be open to change. As a better mouse trap is invented it should be considered to be implemented in your PLC to improve production or efficiency..Sometimes this means a major PLC Program change, but it extends the life of the original program, right? Many companies are now evaluating if the PLC program is flexible enough to be changed, if not,over time, (a short time in most cases) the program is filed in the circular file and they buy someone else's mouse trap. Do not kid yourself, a bullet proof program today, is one that is open to change. It will last longer, and be remembered by more people than the one that made the circular file...PeterW
Member
Bruce99, sorry couldn't read your post, its difficult reading one long post like that. Try new lines at various points.
Regarding timers and using real world feedback etc. Can't think that the wheel is being re-invented at times in our game. The very things you are saying are things I learn't in the early 80's and would expect by now to be second nature to all through handed down knowledge. We're missing tricks somewhere.
Regarding RSDorans post of environments where the equipment is being changed all the time and machines are used for things outside their original scope. I have never worked in such an environment and the engineers to do that would have to be of a high and competant level.
I have worked where individual macines can be removed and another like inserted for maintenance purposes. These had step instructions and did not need software change.
Regarding Darrenj's post about continued improvement and temporary fixes. I can fully understand both those and have worked in such environments. In both the Food companies that I worked we did this (these were big companies in the Mars Group and Heinz), but the electricians were not expected to do this.
In both cases, electricians could do this but in neither was it expected. In both cases there was a technician level between the electrician and management, an in between position if you like, and these were responsible for such changes.
If an electrician had the inclination and application to do such changes the technicians would give them work and supervise them. In a way bringing them on to be future technicians.
This is my background and this is why I am suprised at electricians being EXPECTED to make PLC changes daily. In my experience elecricians would repair and maintain the equipment and occassionally use the PLC as a tool if the HMI and their experience has not already found the fault.
For interest and to bring those that want on, they would get involved on small projects (usually improvement projects).
At all times any software change had to be approved before hand by a manager (the tech could temp approve if the correct managers were not available) , this involved filling in forms and ensuring before and after programs on disk.
I have also worked in the Nuclear industry, which like the pharmacutrical means - NO CHANGES unless signed by a cast of 1000's
Regarding timers and using real world feedback etc. Can't think that the wheel is being re-invented at times in our game. The very things you are saying are things I learn't in the early 80's and would expect by now to be second nature to all through handed down knowledge. We're missing tricks somewhere.
Regarding RSDorans post of environments where the equipment is being changed all the time and machines are used for things outside their original scope. I have never worked in such an environment and the engineers to do that would have to be of a high and competant level.
I have worked where individual macines can be removed and another like inserted for maintenance purposes. These had step instructions and did not need software change.
Regarding Darrenj's post about continued improvement and temporary fixes. I can fully understand both those and have worked in such environments. In both the Food companies that I worked we did this (these were big companies in the Mars Group and Heinz), but the electricians were not expected to do this.
In both cases, electricians could do this but in neither was it expected. In both cases there was a technician level between the electrician and management, an in between position if you like, and these were responsible for such changes.
If an electrician had the inclination and application to do such changes the technicians would give them work and supervise them. In a way bringing them on to be future technicians.
This is my background and this is why I am suprised at electricians being EXPECTED to make PLC changes daily. In my experience elecricians would repair and maintain the equipment and occassionally use the PLC as a tool if the HMI and their experience has not already found the fault.
For interest and to bring those that want on, they would get involved on small projects (usually improvement projects).
At all times any software change had to be approved before hand by a manager (the tech could temp approve if the correct managers were not available) , this involved filling in forms and ensuring before and after programs on disk.
I have also worked in the Nuclear industry, which like the pharmacutrical means - NO CHANGES unless signed by a cast of 1000's
Peter, Yes it might be a little strange for a sparky to be doing this but it is a small plant with engineering team. at the moment if i think a change should be done i do it..i have carte blanch over that..if managmenty comes to me with an idea i take it and do it or make it more user friendly for the guys on the floor..the sparky we are looking for is not your average bubba..we are looking for a bubba supreme!!
I am still working on the job description..when i am done i will post it here..it covers everything..it is not the kind you would see in a newspaper..at the moment i am on page 3 and still going..
thanks
I am still working on the job description..when i am done i will post it here..it covers everything..it is not the kind you would see in a newspaper..at the moment i am on page 3 and still going..
thanks
Sliver
Member
What is the hourly pay Darren?
You never know, might be worth a look.
Brian.
You never know, might be worth a look.
Brian.
Unfortunatly..not near enough for what they are looking for...
Its a union position and all the maintinace workers are paid the same..around $24.00 plus benifits..etc...etc..
the only half decent thing is the vacation..start at 2 after and at the end you have 6 weeks..plus 1 week sick leave plus 4 "whatever" days..
anyway..the job will end up going to someone who will work for the money..not who fits the job...but that is somewhat to my gain..the less they do the more i have to do...
Silver..you are into concrete if i remeber??
Its a union position and all the maintinace workers are paid the same..around $24.00 plus benifits..etc...etc..
the only half decent thing is the vacation..start at 2 after and at the end you have 6 weeks..plus 1 week sick leave plus 4 "whatever" days..
anyway..the job will end up going to someone who will work for the money..not who fits the job...but that is somewhat to my gain..the less they do the more i have to do...
Silver..you are into concrete if i remeber??
Sliver
Member
Sorry Darren, $24 would be a sizable paycut.
I've worked in the cement business since 1984.
Brian.
I've worked in the cement business since 1984.
Brian.
Bruce99
Member
Job Descriptions
Sorry Peter, My normal economy of words lost out to economy of space..
Darrenj ..its not so much the money but what you expect for the money. The paper here is full of electrical jobs, some require PLC experience and some do not. Wages vary from 25 to 35. Duties vary depending on plant and company policy. As a PLC programmer and planner I get the same rate as the construction electrician pulling cable and terminating wires. I must also do this job when required.
Construction electricians in oil and gas wil average over 100K a year, but are not home very often.
You are living in a great area and the wage may appeal to someone looking..Good luck..
Sorry Peter, My normal economy of words lost out to economy of space..
Darrenj ..its not so much the money but what you expect for the money. The paper here is full of electrical jobs, some require PLC experience and some do not. Wages vary from 25 to 35. Duties vary depending on plant and company policy. As a PLC programmer and planner I get the same rate as the construction electrician pulling cable and terminating wires. I must also do this job when required.
Construction electricians in oil and gas wil average over 100K a year, but are not home very often.
You are living in a great area and the wage may appeal to someone looking..Good luck..
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