Low cost multi-axis motion controller

I don't have anything to contribute to the ****ing contest but in response to the original question, if you're looking to make a super low cost motion controller it might be good to support the serial encoders on super low cost servos like DMM.


Like most of these smart servo-drives, the DMM is already equipped with "simulated encoder output". These are the standard A,B,Z encoder signals with complements.


However, I did come across one product where the simulated output wasn't available if the motor-encoder was absolute (makes sense). I would go with the incremental option.

There is usually also the standard +/-10v motor command input.

So, we switch-off the internal motion controller and configure the drive as "torque controller". This makes it dumb and only responsible for providing current and commutation.


There is some amazing value-for-money out there, today. I have never laid my hands on these Aliexpress motors/drives but they look pretty amazing and the reviews are generally positive.


Craig

DMM Encoder output.PNG
 
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Exactly but it is the purveyors who use the meaningless numbers to promote their products.
Yes, but you are doing it. Isn't that hypocritical? Who's product are you promoting anyway? Galil, Trio, your own? The hardware specs are not an indication what the controller can do. Software is a better indication. Without software the hardware does nothing.
What is the required bandwidth of the application? That is the spec the must be met. Most big industrial systems only accelerate/decelerate at 5 to Hz. However, we are helping Star Hydraulics by Tewkesbury. We are testing their valves in excess of 200 Hz. We can do FFTs so Bode plots for documentation can get generated. Fast and Furious 9 was filmed by London. They used two of our controllers to control two 6 DOF platforms for making those action scenes. Clansman in Scotland used our controller for a huge robotic grinding application where they touch the part in 3 places to define a plane and then grind anything higher than that flat with the plane. Touching the part in 3 places also helps compensate for the wear of the grinding wheel. All the math is done in the RMC. Our UK distributor has made an upside down 6DOF. It is small. I am not sure what they are using it for. I can show pictures.

Our user programs run synchronously with the scan time so no interrupts are required. Everything is deterministic. There is no interpreted basic running asynchronously in the background that runs as time permits which won't be often if you are closing the loops as fast as Tinine claims.

When it must work, RMCs are used. First, I can model the system to make sure it works and tell the customer what they need to do if it doesn't. I have saved people LOTS OF MONEY by avoiding screw up. Someone on this forum once asked me about doing sinusoidal waves with at 5mm amplitude at 75 Hz. It seems simple but...

Tinine is in a completely different market. It is one we don't wish to enter...so far. Cheap controllers can only be sold to OEMs that use quantities and when they can support the product themselves. Otherwise tech support is a killer. Our competition is Beckhoff, Siemens, Rockwell ( we compete against the M02AS and HYD02 we make for Rockwell ), and Bosch. We don't run into Galil or Trio often or at all.
Do a search for RMC on this forum. We have lots of customers here.

losctcontrol said:
Show us some photos/screen shots of your solutions please ����
We are waiting.

BTW, what really p!$$e$ me off is when we get a call and the customer blames the motion controller because his one off kludge design doesn't work.
 
More because I am in St Kitts now
Zenny Olsen invented a "digital server cylinder" back in 1975, at least that is when it was patented. The digital cylinder used a stepper motor that turned a shaft that moved a spool in the cylinder. This caused oil to flow. The sleeve of the spool is connected to a lead screw that goes through the cylinder piston and rod. As the cylinder moves it moves the sleeve until there is no more flow. Basically the cylinder moves proportional to the number of stepper and direction of stepper counts given. Because this "digital cylinder" can be controller by stepper pulses, it is easy for a cheap PLC to control this "digital cylinder".

In China there is a company that "borrowed" this idea and has refined it some what. This is one of my "competitors" in China. Like Tinine Yang Shi Xiang like to take pot shots at our controller saying it is cheaper, it is, than our servo systems, but.....
The cylinder has only proportional control and it can be changed or tuned. YSX makes a big deal out of this because he claims no tuning is necessary. The big claim is that the "digital cylinder" is easier to use and is cheaper. I don't bother to dispute that. The issue is what can it do? We exported $2.7M to China last year and $900K the first two months of this year so we are doing well. We don't directly compete with the "digital cylinder". They have their market and we have ours.
 
Yes, but you are doing it.

No I'm not. It's my opinion that these numbers are pointless. I run my loops at 500usec and even that's overkill.
The first time I brought this up was in another thread. I forget the exact wording but the gist of it was; what's the
deal with the likes of OMRON boasting about ridiculously fast loop-rates. I was hoping for you to enlighten me but you
blew me off because it wasn't relevant to the thread.
When I code, I count clock cycles and I optimise (old habits) when I really don't need to. All I did was demonstrate that a $100 off-the-shelf module can cope with this stuff while spending most of its time waiting for time to elapse.

Who's product are you promoting anyway? Galil, Trio, your own?
None. I have my own market and zero competitors. I don't want to be in that business because it would mean solving other
people's problems. I only use the other guys as a reference.
I'm interested in sparking interest in others who are frustrated with the status quo and would like to become more independent.
Take a glance at the issues on this forum....So ridiculous.

I think I already told how my approach has inspired an automotive supplier to migrate from PLCs to Node-Red tablets and low-cost MCUs.

The hardware specs are not an indication what the controller can do. Software is a better indication. Without software the hardware does nothing.
Totally agree.

What is the required bandwidth of the application? That is the spec the must be met. Most big industrial systems only accelerate/decelerate at 5 to Hz.
Almost exactly what I preach except I use 10Hz

Our user programs run synchronously with the scan time so no interrupts are required.
Translation (and I hold my hand-up if I mis-read): User program execution is limited to whatever the loop-rate is set at.
Furthermore, the faster the loop-rate, the fewer clock-cycles available to the user program.

You missed it. I already stated that in addition to the P2, I have four other dual-core RP2040s that run independently but communicate with the P2. Three of the RP2040s have 24 I/Os and the fourth has 16. Furthermore, they each feature a Mikroe Click socket (more than 1000 modules available) to suit special needs.
The fourth RP2040 uses pins to drive a VGA monitor to inform the operator of machine status. In our case, the RP2040s each run PicoMite BASIC and they have on-board code-editing (with color-coded syntax). Plug-in a terminal and the user is able to create/edit and instantly test whatever. No programming licenses, no incompatible protocols, no dongles.

For example; a "Start" signal involves the closing of a n/o contact plus the opening of a n/c contact and this state must persist for 40ms (debounce) to be considered valid. Why tie-up the realtime system with this mundane task. The P2 simply asks if a "Start" command has been received.
The time critical I/O such as position latches, triggers, etc., is handled by one or more the P2's 8 parallel processors. The response is a few tens of nanoseconds.

Others prefer Python or C and so all they need to do is load-up their preference.

Tinine is in a completely different market. It is one we don't wish to enter...so far. Cheap controllers can only be sold to OEMs that use quantities and when they can support the product themselves.
Not in the cheap controller business. Merely sharing my discoveries.

Our competition is Beckhoff, Siemens, Rockwell
Yeah, those are the guys that I replace due to their EOL. Hardware might be found on eBay but then there's the issue of firmware and parameters, etc.

My focus is on resurrecting existing iron that is super-costly to replace but has been relegated to boat-anchor status due to big-name control hardware that no-one can work with.
Mechanical issues, hydraulic issues, pneumatic issues are all easily dealt with. Obsolete control gear is the killer.
All too often, I've been the one guy on someone's plant floor on Turkey-day, cobbling together whatever I found at Radio Shack to try to get a line running. There is no need for this cr@p.


Craig
 
Like Tinine Yang Shi Xiang like to take pot shots at our controller saying it is cheaper


The true cost is downtime. Nobody is gonna keep megabuck spares on the shelf. They might as well replicate the entire manufacturing facility.


Everything should be rapidly and locally repairable.


Craig
 
We don't directly compete with the "digital cylinder". They have their market and we have ours.


Promised myself that I am done with machine building and to now just stick with metal-forming controls but I keep getting excited about these integrated units


Get rid of the tank, pump, valves, piping, cooling. The potential for machine conversion has to be huge.




Craig
 
Any way the wind blows.
https://deltamotion.com/peter/Videos/Automate India 6DOF.mp4
This is controlled by a RMC. There is no hydraulics at all. This distributor/integrators helps a customer retrofit Moog flight simulators. They started with my basic 6DOF code that converts x,y,z,yaw,pitch and roll into cylinder extensions. The simulators update at a rate of about 25 fps so we calculate. There is 40ms between updates so we calculate a smooth 5th order motion to go between the different extension positions. Normally a flight simulator generates the x,y,z, yaw, pitch and roll but in the video example there is a user program that provides the x,y,z,yaw, pitch and roll. Can you imagine being in a trade show having to listen to that the whole time?

It is a matter of what it can do. Updating a some super high frequency is not going to help.
For the movie 2012 we were controlling this
https://deltamotion.com/peter/Videos/40x40test.mp4
I believe Norm's company has this 6DOF platform now. It was in Vancouver BC when the film was shot.
 
Any way the wind blows.
https://deltamotion.com/peter/Videos/Automate India 6DOF.mp4
This is controlled by a RMC. There is no hydraulics at all. This distributor/integrators helps a customer retrofit Moog flight simulators. They started with my basic 6DOF code that converts x,y,z,yaw,pitch and roll into cylinder extensions. The simulators update at a rate of about 25 fps so we calculate. There is 40ms between updates so we calculate a smooth 5th order motion to go between the different extension positions. Normally a flight simulator generates the x,y,z, yaw, pitch and roll but in the video example there is a user program that provides the x,y,z,yaw, pitch and roll. Can you imagine being in a trade show having to listen to that the whole time?

It is a matter of what it can do. Updating a some super high frequency is not going to help.
For the movie 2012 we were controlling this
https://deltamotion.com/peter/Videos/40x40test.mp4
I believe Norm's company has this 6DOF platform now. It was in Vancouver BC when the film was shot.


Oh don't get me wrong, I love linear-electric actuators....in the right application.


I built the two integrated cells that produce the entire chassis for the Polaris Rzr. Each has 17 servo-electric axes but several of these are like clamping devices. I went with roller-screws because they take a heck-of-a-lot more punishment than ballscrews.


Whatever it was that equates to a 4" bore hydraulic cylinder @2000psi, well the screws alone cost me $15K each. For most of the year, Polaris run 24/7. Screws didn't last a year. Rebuild cost wasn't much different to a new replacement.


For me, hydraulics for transmission is the only way to go. Nobody wants a centralized hydraulic power-pack with valve manifold anymore.


Went on a flight simulator that was MOOG hydraulics driven. Embarrassed the heck out of my kids because I was on my knees, trying to get a better look at the hydraulics :D


Craig
 
I move loads all the time:


I built the machine for Chrysler 300M engine cradles

They had a problem with floor-space, no problem, I'll make two at a time.


Ford, Navistar and Siemens fuel-injector tubes
I came up with this 20-axis system
The turret rotates continuously and the 8-onboard rotary axes are WiFi controlled


GM needed a more accurately formed Corvette chassis
I built them the first-ever 6" bender with an electric bendhead.
Note the coordinated servo hydraulics.


Swapped-out the bendhead for a Hypertherm Plasma and voila

I have a tube cutting system


Craig
 
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