Manufacturer training classes

[jpayne]

Training for AutomationDirect PLCs

With out getting involved in the underlying discussions … Here is a little information on training for AutomationDirect PLCs. The following are links directly to the training site and one that shows where it can be found from AutomationDirect’s web page.

http://www.interconnectingautomation.com/

http://support.automationdirect.com/



InterConnecting Automation is an independent training company who just happens to use AutomationDirect equipment in their class rooms. The company has been in business for over 10 years and has an excellent reputation from those who have attended.



The training is not free, but it does offer a few options. This allows you to cater your training to how you feel will best suit your needs.

- Self teach w/ PLC Trainers: Get a PLC trainer w/ input & output devices, programming software, documentation & training video for <$500.

- Training Courses: Attend one of the scheduled 3-day training courses held at predefined locations all across the US (from GA, FL, NV, OH, TX, IL, CA, NJ). Training courses consist of a Beginning PLC class, an Advanced PLC class & a PID class. Each are 3-day courses and each are <$900.

- On Site Training: There is also customizable training available for larger customers who wish to have the training catered directly to their specific needs. (price varies).



Some of these prices are available on the web site, other require you to fill out a simple request to have a brochure e-mailed to you. Why a brochure, because it answers many questions … Like Who should Attend? & What are the benefits? It includes pricing, a full course syllabus, current schedule, information about the instructor and a registration form.



If there are further questions about these training classes, you will find contact information on the ICA web site (phone, fax, e-mail) or you can call ADC’s tech support (1-800-633-0405) and they can steer you in the right direction.



I’m not sure what the intent of the original question was (based on some of the replies) but from one persons perspective, this training follows the same format you expect from ADC products and support … High quality without the High price.

 

[rta53]

personally, I look at “PLC Training” this way ... consider that there are TWO main categories of students ...



(1) the “engineering types” ... these are the people who decide what brand and type of equipment to buy ... and then program the equipment ... and also create the wiring diagrams for the I/O ... and do other sorts of “design” things ... in a nutshell, these are the people who get the machinery up and running - and then they go away ...



(2) the “technician types” ... these are the people who must keep the machinery running - and repair it when it breaks ... yes, they might occasionally make minor changes to the PLC programs ... but by-and-large their interaction with the PLC is limited to tracing a “circuit” through the control scheme ... in most cases the “circuit” begins with an output device in the field which is malfunctioning ... in simple terms, the machine is broken ... the “technician type” just wants to get the machine back up and running again - and the quicker the better ...

Hey Ron, some of us are both.

 

[Ron Beaufort]

Hey Ron, some of us are both.

yep ... and they're my favorites! ...

 

[Jimmie_Ohio]

I remember in the "old days" when PLC's were relatively new. The users knew more than the guys running the training. Most of it was for exposure of the PLC in the plant to replace relay panels.

This created a third group, "the purchasing agent". Usually these guys had doughnuts at 8AM, nodded off during the technical presentation, then magically awoke for the "free lunch". (Yes, there is such a thing...)

 

[ArikBY]

I think Ron is right.
I would divide the pepole for two.
1.pepole who need basic training and learn the rest with self learning.
2.The pepole who need to be feed with spoon, they hardly chew and cannot swallow.
You cannot mix those two type in one class.
Tranning need to be at equal level.
The person who give the tranning need to be higher level then the pepole he try to learn.Otherwise it become a joke.
I think in this field the trainer must have wide field experience,theory is not good enough.
Now how many of you want to stand in front of class and talk how to force input and the must trafic light?

 

[CaseyK]

How many days a week do you work for free?

In my case, how many day(s) in a month do actually get paid.

No offense to Russ or Steve but the worse sales reps and training I have had was with GE.

The best service and training that I ever got was from GE sales reps. But, NOT ALL distributors are created equal.

I have heard from people in their respective areas that Russ and Steve, and their respective employers, are very well regarded in the industry.

My Rockford distributor people eventual seperated, after the distributor dropped GE for Siemans. This has cost the supplier millions of dollars in automation sales from a group of "loyal" customers over the last several years.

My Peoria/Bloomington rep left for private enterprise, and his replacement may as well be a blown fuse. Again, six months with NO sales rep has cuased a migration to other brands. In an area where there are 10 supply houses (five of which handle Square D) there should be SOME effort given.

My experience with GE training and the "real" factory support that I have gotten is excellant. Working for GE on contract for a couple years didn't prove to be much help, other then some of the reference material that I was able to acquire,

I have gone to the factory for training from several manufacturers. Overall, it was all very good, and very expensive. Do to the high dollar volume of purchases made, the training, other then lodging, was always free. At GE, I was once told that I could probably go to school free each year, for the rest of my life. But then, I made sure that Nuetron Jack got lots of business to support his retirement fund, too!

I feel that manufacturers should provide some kind of training, even if it is a vcr tape, ooops, they are being phaesed out the end of the year. CD's then. A basic one hour demo showing hooking up the plc, starting the program, programming basics, loading the program, and hitting "RUN". At the tire plant, there were seven electricians assigned to my section of the plant. Three could program and load programs, three couldn't (all with 20+ years in the plant), and one wouldn't (3 years to retirement). The one that wouldn't was always scared that he would mess something up. A training tape would have helped him.

Having done training, it will help those who want it, be of some benefit to those that are indifferent, and a waste of YOUR time to those that just want their paycheck.

Some factory schools that I attended had terrible instructors, but you could generally pick stuph up from the hand outs and those attending.

Overall, the classes were a good thing.

The expensive ones were not neccessarilly the better ones.

regards.....casey

 

[jvdcande]

Hello everybody,

I have checked the prices of Siemens training here in Belgium and these rate from about 207€ up to 213€ a day. I work for a public service that also provides training about Siemens PLCs and we charge between 110€ and 130€ per day for employees, while unemployed get the same courses for free. The difference is that our training take longer (typically about double the time, but strongly dependant on the person taking the course) than the Siemens ones, because all our trainings are hands on from the very first page of the course on. The trainings with Siemens used to be hands on, but they changed with the S7 trainings: now you need to do the theoretics, but the practical part is optional. Another difference is that we work with an open learning system, while courses at the Siemens Institute are classroom courses.

Kind regards,

 

[Jiri Toman]

My experience with GE training and the "real" factory support that I have gotten is excellant

You must be dealing with a different GE than I am. My experience with GE is that it has a poorest support of any automation Company I have dealt with. I have been using their QuickPanel View HMI.
An excellent product with superb documentation, it is hard to believe that the same Company could design a nice product like this and have a ****ty support that they have. The only reason for that is probably the fact that the product was designed elswhere (India etc.).
My problems with GE support:
Anytime I bought HMI config. software I could not get it registered either on or off line. I called local distributor who in turn had to call factory and it took lots of explaining to get it done. HMI's shipped with clips missing. Getting a replacement clip is a hassle, phone calls, phone calls. I have registered
on GE's web site 3 times and 3 times it lost my password, I had to re-register.
Finding manuals on their web site is also not a pleasant experience.
Getting someone to call you back with technical support can be a
wait of 3 days and you better be near the phone! You miss that phone call? Tough, he is done!

That's why I always try to use AB first if I can help it.

 

[rsdoran]

My problems with GE support:
Anytime I bought HMI config. software I could not get it registered either on or off line. I called local distributor who in turn had to call factory and it took lots of explaining to get it done. HMI's shipped with clips missing. Getting a replacement clip is a hassle, phone calls, phone calls. I have registered
on GE's web site 3 times and 3 times it lost my password, I had to re-register.
Finding manuals on their web site is also not a pleasant experience.
Getting someone to call you back with technical support can be a
wait of 3 days and you better be near the phone! You miss that phone call? Tough, he is done!

I will second that. It is not always HMI software either, my first problem was obtaining LogicMaster and the second was VersaPro...I stopped there and have not tried to get Cimplicity. I like some of their products but have run into too many issues with support etc to rely on them.

 

[DickDV]

If any of you are interested in more generic PLC training, you might want to take a look at NTT. Their website is www.nttinc.com. They have some PLC seminars and other automation-specific seminars.

Just for the record, I am a part-time instructor for NTT in the Variable Speed Drives and Electric Motors program so, as you would expect, I might not be an impartial observer. And, no, the classes are not free but, in my opinion, quite worthwhile.

If interested, check them out and make your own evaluation.

 

[rgurin]

DickDV:

Just out of curiosity, which VFDs are NTT using these days? I attended an NTT Fundamentals course about 4 years ago, and the workstations were equipped with AB 1305s. (BTW, the instructor did have micro-drives on display from other vendors, but I forget which ones right now).

I recall NTT had some pretty good wiring simulations using test points on the workstations, as well...

Rick

 

[Ron Beaufort]

I think that I've been misunderstood ...

Greetings to all,



ArikBY said:

I think Ron is right.
I would divide the pepole for two.
1.pepole who need basic training and learn the rest with self learning.
2.The pepole who need to be feed with spoon, they hardly chew and cannot swallow.

ArikBY, we need to have a friendly talk ... I’m afraid that somehow you’ve misunderstood what I was saying ... the “technician types” that I mentioned are NOT people who need to be fed with a spoon ... indeed, I have found some of them to be among the brightest people that I’ve ever dealt with ... the biggest difference (in my carefully considered opinion) between the “engineering type” and the “technician type” is this:



the “engineering type” person has little or no trouble learning by “listening” ... on the other hand, the “technician type” person learns best by “doing” ... in simple terms, most technicians learn through their hands ...

discussing this topic always makes me think of rsdoran’s signature line: "Tell me and I forget, show me and I remember, involve me and I understand."

“learning-by-doing” does NOT make the “technician type” person any less intelligent - nor any less capable - than the “engineering type” person ... and I can ASSURE you that they certainly can chew - and swallow - even the most complicated of ideas ... just as long as those ideas are presented in a way which accommodates their preferred way of learning ...

side note to ArikBY: PLEASE don’t think that I’m trying to be argumentative here ... you’re certainly welcome to your own personal opinion about the technicians that you’ve encountered ... BUT ... I just don’t want you (or anyone else) to think that I have - in any way - said anything derogatory about anyone ... ESPECIALLY about my friends, the “technician type” people ... if anything in my earlier comments could be construed that way, then I apologize for not making myself more clear ... I am trying VERY hard to help you understand what I really meant to say without offending you ... and if I fail in that attempt, PLEASE let me know ... I’ll certainly try again ...

and so ... if there is ANYTHING in my earlier remarks that ANYONE has interpreted as meaning that “technicians” have some type of “learning disability” then I apologize ... I did not mean to imply anything along those lines ... moreover, I personally do not hold those types of beliefs ... in fact, I proudly count myself as a card-carrying member of the “technician type” group ... I myself learn (and remember) new ideas much more readily by working through a problem with my hands than by simply listening to a lecture ...



now ... hopefully I’ve made myself clear on that topic ... and hopefully I haven’t offended anyone in the process ...



now ... would anyone like to discuss different PLC-training methods? ...

 

[KBrodin]

My opinion:

The perfect training session would spend a couple hours on the obligatory sales pitch. Several hours on the basics of the particular PLC language. (Ladder is Ladder unless its on AB when you are used to Siemens or vice-versa). Then the rest of the class is spent in the lab.
The lab would consist of a working program with several "bugs". These bugs should be of increasing severity and complexity, escalating daily throughout the duration of the class. (Assuming class is about 1 week). With clear expected results upon the debug of the program. The hands-on would definitely improve the technician's skill at troubleshooting as well as give the engineer a better understanding of what the software is capable of.

My bosses call me an engineer, but I am really just an underpaid tech that goes from place to place correcting the issues that the REAL engineers didn't know they had.

 

[Rube]

About two years after I first started programming PLCs, I finally got to go to a school given by an integrator, not an AB affiliated school. I learned a ton and it was 1/4 the cost of an AB school. Not knocking the AB school since I haven't gone to one--but my schooling was very one-on-one and informative. Money well spent.

I then fell into the "technician" class but now I design the controls and schematics without benefit of a paper degree. Wonder if that makes me a third classification, somewhere between engineer and technician?

 

[rgurin]

Mark:

Maybe the classification used could be "Tech-gineer."
Rick